Curse

moko · Apr 07, 2007, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

i always click my skills.

>=D

quote; karla -- TA, last evening

"i keep misclicking divert when i want to use rof ><"

:P

moko · Apr 08, 2007, 12:40 AM // 00:40

^win.

didnt even notice his post until you quoted it.

and if you're already talking about not dying..sometimes it's also helpful to let your team die, esp if one is stuck -- instead of burning energy on him when he was everyone on him you let him die and watch the others move away, rez up and hes free.

*clicks skills as well*

i dont see no difference with it, i click anywhere and always, except if im infusing -- its the only time i select my target and skills by keyboard, especially if the spike is being called with a number on vent.

another thing i just thought off if you're monking -- if you catch an overextender, a migraine mes chasing you when you run out of aggro to cast, or a silly melee or anything -- call them like mad and let your team know to get them while they overextend. luring people can be really useful, and its rather easy as monk. :P

Darkpower Alchemist · Apr 08, 2007, 01:46 AM // 01:46

I have played a monk for at least the last 20 months, and I have to say that in arenas the biggest problem is that not many hang near enough to their monk.

When you play a monk, you know that you must stay as far from harm's way as possible, but the downside is that harm's way is a road you get on from the moment you become a monk. It's a street that you have to walk in the center of, and sometimes, you will get ran over by a random car.

As a monk, your first worry is that if your team can play well together? The team build matters,even in the 4 man arenas. Random teams may be more haphazard than you would like,but the fact is that if you're the monk, the team has you to depend on for healing/protection. The downside is that you may be the only one thinking of defending yourself when the "Monk Stomp" comes,and it will.

If you have a solid team, a melee player will hang back near the monk and watches for the stomp. Yet, how do you heal/protect,avoid the stomp, and keep the team alive if you're kiting constantly? I personally find that if the team can't stop the stomp, then they will not win. I kite when needed, but I will not run all over the arena while my team attacks the opposing monk(s).

I had a guy tell me that I shouldn't "tank" dervs and warriors, but that I should kite. The fact of the matter was,however, that I stood more and kited less, and they were winning matches as long as the stomp was stopped. And that was the big difference, that the stomp didn't succeed.

All the clicking and hotkey use doesn't matter if the monk is dead.

As for the best way to play a monk, that is very debateable. If you use hotkeys or click with the mouse, they are both effective ways to play if you are comfortable doing them. I ,personally, use a mix of both to play my monk role. Build analysis and the comfort in the uses of various builds makes for a better monk.

But, in the end, stop the stomp, and your team can have a fighting chance.

JR · Apr 08, 2007, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

i always click my skills.

>=D

Which is why you will only ever be a TA superstar.

moko · Apr 08, 2007, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

I have played a monk for at least the last 20 months, and I have to say that in arenas the biggest problem is that not many hang near enough to their monk.

When you play a monk, you know that you must stay as far from harm's way as possible, but the downside is that harm's way is a road you get on from the moment you become a monk. It's a street that you have to walk in the center of, and sometimes, you will get ran over by a random car.

As a monk, your first worry is that if your team can play well together? The team build matters,even in the 4 man arenas. Random teams may be more haphazard than you would like,but the fact is that if you're the monk, the team has you to depend on for healing/protection. The downside is that you may be the only one thinking of defending yourself when the "Monk Stomp" comes,and it will.

If you have a solid team, a melee player will hang back near the monk and watches for the stomp. Yet, how do you heal/protect,avoid the stomp, and keep the team alive if you're kiting constantly? I personally find that if the team can't stop the stomp, then they will not win. I kite when needed, but I will not run all over the arena while my team attacks the opposing monk(s).

I had a guy tell me that I shouldn't "tank" dervs and warriors, but that I should kite. The fact of the matter was,however, that I stood more and kited less, and they were winning matches as long as the stomp was stopped. And that was the big difference, that the stomp didn't succeed.

All the clicking and hotkey use doesn't matter if the monk is dead.

As for the best way to play a monk, that is very debateable. If you use hotkeys or click with the mouse, they are both effective ways to play if you are comfortable doing them. I ,personally, use a mix of both to play my monk role. Build analysis and the comfort in the uses of various builds makes for a better monk.

But, in the end, stop the stomp, and your team can have a fighting chance.

a monkstop only exists in RA -- or TA where you fight idiots only. if you fight idiots, its already a gg. if the monkstomp exists, theres no pressure on your team, meaning you can actually kite all you want.

but usually, if you're smart, you run an utility char, which stops the monk stomp to an extend, so this does in the end not the monk's just but the team's job.

urania · Apr 08, 2007, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Which is why you will only ever be a TA superstar.

;o

which is why u fail at TA!

(;

Patrick Smit · Apr 09, 2007, 06:49 AM // 06:49

To get back to the topic, I click part of my skills, and most of them not. I will try a suggested layout with 5, R, F, and V. But there is more i want to have keyable or on special mouse buttons.

Program Ftw · Apr 09, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

To be honest, people need to use the layout that they are comfortable with. Just because Soul Wedding used a ball mouse doesn't mean that *everyone* has to go out and buy one to play monk. Although I believe that using keyboard buttons for skills are much, much faster than using the mouse to select a skill.

I play with my fingers on my skill buttons, and use my mouse to move, change my weapon sets and kite. But this isn't saying it's the only way to play.

I think *the* most important part of monking has to be pre-protting, for example, getting a Shield of Deflection on a target before its rspiked will save so much healing/damage, and the only way I think its possible to do this is either the opponents are giving away some *huge* clues, or you know what to look for (from past experiences), such as assassins the *perfect* example, assuming the are no other hexes in the build, when you see the hex go on the target, you can just prot it, and remove the deep wound (this is an example by the way).

So my point is, while setting your self up to shave off the seconds of your reaction time, your experience of how builds work and how to react to them is *much* more important.

Hope I helped,
Pr0gram~

Cammy · Apr 22, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

So I'm RAing, on win #9 and I'm up against a ranger with broad head arrow. I ended up being constantly dazed and getting interrupted every time I tried to mending touch myself.

So what can I do to stop this? I already have the -20% daze rune and a -20% daze shield inscription but when the pressure is on being dazed for any duration of time is detrimental. I also tried using sig of devo to heal while dazed but it's activation is soooo long => distracting/savage shot.

Is the only way to avoid daze to hide behind stuff to break LoS?

assassin of the god · Apr 23, 2007, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Ummmmmmmm

Learn to dodge BHA (incredibly easy, BHA is the slowest traveling arrow in the game) or run shield bash.

Zui · Apr 23, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cammy

So I'm RAing, on win #9 and I'm up against a ranger with broad head arrow. I ended up being constantly dazed and getting interrupted every time I tried to mending touch myself.

So what can I do to stop this? I already have the -20% daze rune and a -20% daze shield inscription but when the pressure is on being dazed for any duration of time is detrimental. I also tried using sig of devo to heal while dazed but it's activation is soooo long => distracting/savage shot.

Is the only way to avoid daze to hide behind stuff to break LoS?

I'll break this down into three categorys.

Prevention:

The best way to deal with somthing is to stop it from happening entirely. There are two ways to prevent you from getting Dazed from Broadhead Arrow. The first is if a team mate with meleehate uses it appropriately on the Ranger. Since you mentioned you're playing in Random Arenas, the odds of this happening are not very good. The only other option is you dodging the arrow. To do this, you want to make sure you're as far away from the Ranger as possible when he fires Broadhead Arrow at you. Know the skill recharge, and pay attention. Often times you can spot Rangers running up to you to use the skill, and can buy time, or frusturate them by running away and preparing to strafe after the shot is fired. Bad Rangers will fire from full distance, which makes it retardedly easy to strafe. Just to note, if you have a team mate who is applying meleehate to the Ranger properly, you should quite honestly be strafing his Broadhead Arrow anyway. Attacks can still hit through meleehate effects, because those effects only create a % chance to not hit.

Obviously, you can not expect to prevent every application of Dazed from Broadhead arrow. However, every single application you can prevent is worth it.

Dealing with it:

If people are attacking you, you kite, just like you normally would. Only stop to cast when you can get off a 1/4s spell, such as Reversal of Fortune, or Spirit Bond. Remember that when you are Dazed, they take 1/2s to cast and not 1/4s. When not casting, even if you don't have anyone on you, you still want to be moving. Attempt to keep the farthest distance possible between you and the opposing offense, as it'll make it much harder for them to gang rape you while you're dazed.

It's also advisable to have your team play more defensively when you're Dazed. However, since you're playing in Random Arenas, don't expect this to happen.

Your entire aim while dealing with Dazed should be removing it.

Removing it:

The absolute best way to get rid of Dazed is to have someone else on your team do it. However, this isn't always an option, especailly in Random Areans. You'll still want to call your Dazed, even spam call it to alert your team in RA, but honestly don't expect someone else to remove it for you, even if they're running condition removal.

If another player on your team can't remove you, you're going to have to do it yourself. Ideally, you want to enlist the help of your allies in this process. However, without voice chat, and without competent players, it may not happen. In a team setting, your team sould be playing defensively, and should while doing so, attempt to create a window of oppurtinity where no one is going to hit you for 1.5s, by using the tools they have available to them (knockdown, snares, meleehate conditions/hexes). You should also work to assist them in that process by attempting to obstruct any ranged attackers, and trying to be as far away from the opposing offense as is practical.

If your team can't assist you, or isn't doing so, you'll have to remove the Dazed yourself. Basically, you just need to be in the right postition and casting at the right time to make this happen, and it's alot harder than I just made that sound. If no one is paying attention to you, you can probably remove it easily. If the Ranger is on you, it'll be a bit harder, and you'll want to try and obstruct him, or at the very least move away and then try and remove yourself(many times you might want to fake him out before you *really* remove yourself, since interrupts have an aftercast, and spells do not suffer it if you cancel them). In the situation where a Warrior or multilpe people are on you, odds are you simply will not have the time to cast Mending Touch on yourself unless your team helps you out(If it's a Hammer Warrior or Dervish, and they don't have an IAS you can do it with proper timing, you can probably do it to guys without a speed boost as well).

I should note that if removing Dazed is going to cost you and your team more than dealing with it, do not remove it. You'll instantly know when you reach the point at which you shouldn't go to remove Dazed from yourself. Like doing somthing that will cause your team to loose the game, but removes Dazed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin of the god

Learn to dodge BHA (incredibly easy, BHA is the slowest traveling arrow in the game) or run shield bash.

Good players will run up to you under Natural Stride, and attempt to fire Broadhead at as close to point blank range as possible. This makes it significantly harder to dodge, and often requires you to start moving away as soon as the Ranger starts coming towards you (increasing the liklihood they'll just say "to hell with it" and fire it from farther away), and continue moving away as the ranger is firing Broadhead to actually have a chance to dodge it once he finishes firing. If someone is firing from full recurve range (or better yet from full range with a flatbow

) it's retardedly easy to dodge if you don't fail to notice it.

It's not practical to expect that a player will be able to dodge Broadhead Arrow 100% of the time. Lapses in attention or reflex happen when you're playing a profession that is demanding of both.

moko · Apr 23, 2007, 12:13 PM // 12:13

about the BHA; i havn't read all of it, but about dodging it all i can say is that good rangers will just wait until you cast something (longer than 1/2 cast anyways) until they shoot their close-up bha, so dodging is often hard. i usually just call the ranger and keep watching him through the call, you can't dodge every single attempt but what the heck, worth it.

but seeing how RA is full of moron for most parts, you won't have a hard time. (i've seen flatbow bhas^^)

Patrick Smit · Apr 23, 2007, 12:25 PM // 12:25

I found daze to be the most nasty problem to my build i use. Basically i only try to remove it if safe from attacks, otherwise i just kite, use RoF, SBo, and SoDev. I try to call the source, and with some luck u have a responsive player. The reduction to 60% is very nice as it gives some time to cast of some essential heals in between. As mokone says, good rangers will make it very hard on you, in that case u best have a good team that knows how to handly those pesky rangers. They are usually left unattended untill last, while the secretly can be so damn annoying and dangerous.

Div · Apr 23, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Purge conditions ftw :P

Zui · Apr 23, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Purge conditions ftw :P

Purge Conditions is a pretty useless skill, outside of removing Dazed. Dazed inducing skills are simlpy not seen enough in Random Arenas to justify bringing a skill just to counter them. In addition, even if there was a Broadhead Ranger every other game, it wouldn't be worth it. Very infrequently does being Dazed cause you to loose a game in Random Areans that you wouldn't have lost anyway. Bringing a skill that's genrally worthless to counter somthing that you rarely ever see, and is rarely even a problem is pretty stupid. You're gimping yourself for every single match where you don't encounter Dazed, and where encountering Dazed wouldn't have lost you the game (Translation: You'll probably loose more bringing Purge Conditions and not encountering Dazed than you would by bringing another skill and encountering Dazed).

If you want to argue that Purge Conditions on a Monk bar is better than other alternatives, outside of removing Dazed, please post the Monk bar you run.

Absum · Apr 27, 2007, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

for TA, which got me hundred of gladpoints;

Divert Hexes
Reversal of Fortune
Shielding Hands/Gift of Health (i always run Shielding, many others think Gift is needed)
Signet of Devotion
Draw Conditions
Mending Touch
Spirit Bond
Soldier's Defense

i r running a sup so i can boost my tactics to 10 and have a nice shield - i know it doesnt work that well in combination with Spirit Bond, but its not like you will be on your Shield Set forever, and ele nukes will still hurt, which is what i use it for most anyways. (and yar, theres always a shout up)

Yeah, so... how many support skills does the paragon(s) on your team have?.. and during what times do you normally play?

moko · Apr 27, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absum

Yeah, so... how many support skills does the paragon(s) on your team have?.. and during what times do you normally play?

no support skills (as in command nor motivation), nor warrior shouts on the one paragon we used. the only char in our teambuild i considered support was the ranger (which didn't have any support skills such as mtouch nor purge).

GMT+1 2pm-10pm random times -- i stopped playing ta because it was too easy. anymore offtopic questions?

Absum · Apr 27, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

No, I figured I knew what the situation was, but I got the verification needed to rid any possible doubt. The world makes sense again, thanks.

moko · Apr 27, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absum

No, I figured I knew what the situation was, but I got the verification needed to rid any possible doubt. The world makes sense again, thanks.

haha, prolly thinking about noob times eh? think what you want honestly, i know we've rolled enough good teams consiting of high ranked glads or actually well known guilds, but whatever.

how come some actually constructive posts in here were deleted? i just realised. >->

erk · Apr 29, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

I am just learning to Monk in RA (not TA) and I am looking for a suitable Monk build based on Blessed Light(easier when 2 Necro and a Mes in random foe) instead of the traditional ZB.

So far I am finding in RA there are a lot of n00bs that over extend (I'm taliking to you Mr Assasssin!) so it's very hard to cover them especially as the maps usually tend to have something to prevent you taking a central position. I am still carrying a Res sig as there are deaths and too many n00bs "forgot" res. Shield Bash seems to be useful, so that's 3 slots full other than I am totally open to suggestions as to what skills suit RA best for the other 5 slots.