Curse

wolfwing · Mar 16, 2007, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Thanks, hope I didn't sound too negative, just trying to understand. I don't like heal party either and if I HAD to take anything I take light over heal. What are some good protective spells then? I tried the essence bond and that skill that gives energy when you take damage, but didn't seem to be hit that often.

And while were at it...whats a good few skills for hero's in PVE? Monk Hero's I mean of course.

wolfwing · Mar 16, 2007, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Is there a list of good prots/healing spells and a bit of information on them? I don't want a build nescarily made for me, but would like to know what skills are handy to have. I see in RA the rare monk that is there and they keep the party alive no problem, even themselves regardless of how much damage is flying their way and never seem to run out of energy.

moko · Mar 16, 2007, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas

The healing line is bad in general, and in RA and TA Light of deliverance is also very bad.

The only good RA monk builds include Zealous Benediction, prot spells, sometimes gift of health, and either mes secondary for hex breaker, assassin secondary for return and dark escape, or warrior secondary for shield bash and a tactics stance.

Don't take any res skill on a monk, not even sig. If you blow 3 seconds casting a res, more people will die.

(I know it sounds bad to say "only good RA monk build," but for monks and monks alone, this is entirely true, due to the random nature of 4v4 and tendency to monk stomp, ZB prot with warrior or assassin secondary is pretty much the only thing versatile, survivable, and has enough healing power to deal with RA and usually TA. There are exceptions in TA).

Edit: wow I forgot Shield of regeneration. Not as good as ZB, and requires elementalist secondary for glyph, but it can at least be argued that it's viable in RA. And bring holy veil in addition to what I mentioned before.

shield of regen is crap imo.

but i wonder - how in the hell can i successfully monk in ra while using divert hexes or shield of deflection, or even blight, when ZB and Sor are the only good monk elites to use? OHNOZ! hell, even RC works to an extend. -_- and im not even using any of your suggested secondaries, so yay.

this does not apply to TA AT ALL either.

becoming a better monk; be versatile and dont stay with cookie cutter builds only.

urania · Mar 16, 2007, 10:42 AM // 10:42

lately, i've been trying to make a monk build that'd work well in any kind of situation, but am just failing at that again and again.

if one goes divert, you may own hex-based teams, but then again have a really hard time fighting melee presure only (especially teams with lots of pets like thumps or r/p's) because of your main heal relying on hexes.
if one goes ZB, however, you're better prepared to face melee pressure along with anything unconnected with hexes, but will have a hard time vs hex teams (especially necro anti-melee hex spammers), unless taking sth like expell on one of the other characters (but with heavy spam not even that won't work without shutting down the necro).
also, where did blights disappear to? oO

unlike boons who worked well both melee as well as other kind of pressure (<3 contemplation of purity), monks builds that are being used now are much more specific, which just increases the "buildwars" meta game.
anyway, my point, or rather question is, what do the rest of you who monk regularly think about it.
I'm seriously tempted to start playing as mo/me boon again and say gg to migraine, shame, daze, backfire etc at same time...if only it wouldn't suck now though.

so yeah, anyone have an idea of a monk build who'd be even close to being as self-sufficient as hex breaker booners with cop and MoR were?

do i sound a bit desperate? =/

Patrick Smit · Mar 23, 2007, 08:27 AM // 08:27

I like this topic, and used quite some of suggestions from here when i started to monk a bit a few days ago.

I use the following build:
-zealous benediction
-mending touch
-draw conditions
-reversal of fortune
-Signet of devotion
-spirit bond
-holy veil
-hex breaker

Divine favor 11+1+1
Protection 12+1
domination magic 6
600 health (this should/could be 610 or +2 energy due a forgotten healing minor healing rune)

a 25, 35, 45 and 72 energy set, the first two with anti daze runes. 600 health due survivors.

Advantages of this build are that nobody will be conditioned for a long time, good against blind and such, another advantage is that haxors usually give up and leave u alone. Now my weakness are also pretty clear to me, hammers and daze. I try to get a spiritbond and an occasional rof and signet and indicate to team what they should annoy a bit (mind i'm just practicing this in RA, so not always will they listen

)

Now the important point comes ok some remarks were made about insignias and shields. People suggested to take a shield and blessed or disciples insignias. Now as I use spiritbond I would like to trigger it as much as possible when used (on me at least). With me loaded on conditions due draw and having a shield a dn the suggested disciples insignia would provide me easily with 23+ armor so reducing damage to approximatly 70-80%. Many attacks of sins just go over 60 damage at 14+ dagger mastery, and also other attacks and spells might be reduced by the increased armor level that spiritbond will be much less effective (I feel, i didnt do any calculations on it). And spiritbond is more or less my lifesaver in situations where i am disadvantaged (remember the hammers and dazed).

So I would like to discuss what peoples experiences and ideas are around the use of spiritbond and increased armorlevel. Should u drop spiritbond in that case and put another spell over there?

Thanx for all the former and future advices, suggestions to change build, or try others with their advantages and weakeness are welcome too. To my opinion this is a great thread.

Ow, before I forget, is there a possibility to get the healthbars above the toons like u have in observer mode? That would facilitate my awareness of overextenders and positions, which like any beginning monk I'm confronted with. Otherwise I just need ot get used to this situation.

I have a 27 37, 42, and 74 energy set, the first two with a dazed reduction shield. always +30 hit points, and on the first three 20% to enchantments for spiritbond. The prot staff also has 20% to cast faster, handy when u are dazed, which besides hammers is one of my greater worries. Any constructive criticism on the build is welcome too.

Divineshadows · Mar 23, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

So I would like to discuss what peoples experiences and ideas are around the use of spiritbond and increased armorlevel. Should u drop spiritbond in that case and put another spell over there?

Spirit bond and additional armor interact very poorly together. I once tried a Mo/W build with 9 in tactics (full armor bonus from shield), disciplined stance, and watch yourself. The results with spirit bond were horrible particularly when I had watch yourself up. I had +38 armor (+5 from spear, +16 from shield, and +17 from WY) and this basically makes it almost impossible to trigger spirit bond on any damage other than armor-ignoring packets.

I prefer to use /R (natural stride) or /E (glyph lesser) secondary for my monk. I've had some fun with warrior secondary in the past, but that was when shield of absorption was still a 1/4 second cast. When you need to place spirit bond on yourself, you can switch off your shield set to the 47 energy set to lower your armor to get spirit bond to trigger more often.

As far as prot spells go, spirit bond is the most powerful non-elite prot in the game. What can you possibly replace it with? Protective spirit sucks when compared directly with spirit bond (aside from 55 monks in PvE). Shielding hands has an attractive cast time, but the effect itself is very weak. Shield of absorption has a powerful effect and works well with high armor as well, but a very unattractive cast time for arenas. Guardian's effect is decent, but both the cast time and short duration make it unattractive due to the massive amount of both time and energy that get spent using this prot. Reversal is amazing as always in its ability to stabilize health before you can get the next cast to land.

The only arena monk build where I would not have spirit bond on my bar is if I were running shield of deflection instead of ZB as the elite (with gift of health and sig of devotion being a must I feel on any non-ZB bar). I've never run this elite in arenas, but if I were going to build a bar around this elite it would probably be ele secondary for glyph lesser.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

I have a 27 37, 42, and 74 energy set, the first two with a dazed reduction shield. always +30 hit points, and on the first three 20% to enchantments for spiritbond. The prot staff also has 20% to cast faster, handy when u are dazed, which besides hammers is one of my greater worries. Any constructive criticism on the build is welcome too.

My 47 energy set (+5 energy spear and +12 energy focus) has an enchanting mod to make the use of spirit bond even better. The rest of the weapon sets should not have an enchanting mod. Armor (+5) or health (+30) is better for arena play. You only need one weapon set with an enchanting mod to get the effect you want. I also have my enchanting mod conveniently on the weapon set where I have the least amount of armor (for better interaction with spirit bond when the opposing team tries to monk stomp).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

600 health (this should/could be 610 or +2 energy due a forgotten healing minor healing rune)

Now the important point comes ok some remarks were made about insignias and shields. People suggested to take a shield and blessed or disciples insignias. Now as I use spiritbond I would like to trigger it as much as possible when used (on me at least). With me loaded on conditions due draw and having a shield a dn the suggested disciples insignia would provide me easily with 23+ armor so reducing damage to approximatly 70-80%.

Don't run an attunement rune on a monk. Extra health is better since extra energy can be obtained at times through weapon swapping, but you can't armor swap in the extra health. Blessed insignias are just bad (they abandon you at the same time your protective enchantment gets shattered). Disciples is decent with draw, but I don't see any reason to use it over survivor insignias in monk builds that have spirit bond. Total health for a monk with no major or superior attribute runes should be somewhere between 610 and 650 (depending upon having 1 or 2 vitae runes and whether you choose +5 armor or +30 health on your +5 energy spear on the main 35 energy weapon set).

Lyohn S · Mar 23, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

my guildie made me a better monk by saying

"suck less"

Thomas.knbk · Mar 23, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyohn S

my guildie made me a better monk by saying

"suck less"

Does the name Isaiah Cartwright sound familiar to you?

JR · Mar 24, 2007, 04:48 AM // 04:48

The ZB bar I have been using in RA a lot recently is something like this:

Protection Prayers: 14 (12+2)
Divine Favor: 13 (12+1)
Shadow Arts: 3

Reversal of Fortune
Shielding Hands
Zealous Benediction
Spirit Bond
Mending Touch
Holy Veil
Signet of Devotion
Return

Return+Mending Touch is a fairly amusing way of removing conditions from team mates. Not particularly efficient energy wise, but lets face it with ZB in RA energy is hardly ever a problem. I played with the Draw+Mending Touch variant, but didn't really get on with it.

Patrick Smit · Mar 24, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Return+Mending Touch is a fairly amusing way of removing conditions from team mates. Not particularly efficient energy wise, but lets face it with ZB in RA energy is hardly ever a problem.I played with the Draw+Mending Touch variant, but didn't really get on with it.

My very limited experience as a monk, but also as warrior, or assassin lets me know how important condition removal is, if u find a blindbot against u, your team is practically incapacitated when completely physical. My experience is that with draw conditions, they will find gaps,.... and kill the much hated blindbot.

I usually have a stack of conditions on myself and use mending touch only when i need a heal or I'm getting dazed and have the time to do it, otherwise its spiritbond, kite, signet of D, ask for relieve of pressure to team. But most conditions are pretty harmless, some even good. When you have DW on you already, another application will not harm. Healing becomes slight less efficient but thats not much of a problem. So the trick is to only draw to my opinion, and only remove the conditions from yourself when needed (cripple when u need to be mobile for example). I have stopped protting people much when they are over 50% health, i just use the signet mostly and draw conditions. Only if they benefit from the divine favor heal or much physiclas when there is a blindbot/crippler. When people start dropping, i start protting one, and heal another, to get back and heal the protted one if neccesary. This seems to be energy efficient with ZB and i hardly drop to under 10 energy unless someone is healing too, screwing up my energy return on ZB :S

Divine Shadows thanx for the tip on the 47 energy set, and your experience on spiritbond use.

Another question of me would be if it is possible to have heallthbars above the toons, instead of the partybox. Currently I find I still look too much on the box and not on the field, so sometimes I get in nasty positions (not too often though). I would feel that if i can see the status more on the toon itself, that i would also not go so much for the overextending ones. I always warn them to be diligent with O-extending, i.e. return when u are below 40-50% health to get some healing. Or is this wrong and should I expose myself? For very small distances I don't care, but people that go a long way tend to get u in trouble.

moko · Mar 24, 2007, 11:43 AM // 11:43

what i run for RA; (if i ever do it)

Zealous Benediction
Reversal of Fortune
Spirit Bond
Holy Veil
Draw Conditions
Mending Touch/Shielding Hands
Contemplation of Purity
Vital Boon

- yeah, i <3 good self defense on a monk that doesnt rely on stances which quite many people in RA have a counter to already

for TA, which got me hundred of gladpoints;

Divert Hexes
Reversal of Fortune
Shielding Hands/Gift of Health (i always run Shielding, many others think Gift is needed)
Signet of Devotion
Draw Conditions
Mending Touch
Spirit Bond
Soldier's Defense

i r running a sup so i can boost my tactics to 10 and have a nice shield - i know it doesnt work that well in combination with Spirit Bond, but its not like you will be on your Shield Set forever, and ele nukes will still hurt, which is what i use it for most anyways. (and yar, theres always a shout up)

Quote:

While the rest of the build was good, these two skills are bad. Attention monk players who wish to suck and never get better at the game...run this combination.

WIN!

Patrick Smit · Mar 24, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Mokone, where do the big heals come from if no hexes are used by the opponent? All party members have a proper selfheal, and there is a secondary healer, or draw is used as an actual heal? I just like to see how its working out in a team context.

moko · Mar 24, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

1) devotion spam
2) rof spam
3) team contains a blindbot
4) if no hexes are there (which is hardly ever the case, many teams bring a reapers which will be your healing source), the blindbot will be negating 3 melee damage
5) spirit bond will outheal heavy damage such as dervs, hammer warriors & elementalists

thats how it worked for me at least.

in a team without blinder, the Divert build would be pure madness and suicide.

Div · Mar 25, 2007, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

The ZB bar I have been using in RA a lot recently is something like this:

Protection Prayers: 14 (12+2)
Divine Favor: 13 (12+1)
Shadow Arts: 3

Reversal of Fortune
Shielding Hands
Zealous Benediction
Spirit Bond
Mending Touch
Holy Veil
Signet of Devotion
Return

Return+Mending Touch is a fairly amusing way of removing conditions from team mates. Not particularly efficient energy wise, but lets face it with ZB in RA energy is hardly ever a problem. I played with the Draw+Mending Touch variant, but didn't really get on with it.

All health armor I'm assuming? I'd imagine a 3 hexxer team would be pretty annoying for this build, but what do I know :P

moriz · Mar 25, 2007, 10:04 PM // 22:04

since i'm a masochist and likes to torture myself, here's what i often run in RA:

heal=12+2
pro=9+1
div=8+1
shadow=5

LoD, infuse health, RoF, dismiss condition, spirit bond, holy veil, return, dark escape

i would not recommend this build to anyone. even JR will probably have a difficult time trying to pull this one off in RA because how bad infuse and LoD is in a skirmish battle.

Div · Mar 26, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

since i'm a masochist and likes to torture myself, here's what i often run in RA:

heal=12+2
pro=9+1
div=8+1
shadow=5

LoD, infuse health, RoF, dismiss condition, spirit bond, holy veil, return, dark escape

i would not recommend this build to anyone. even JR will probably have a difficult time trying to pull this one off in RA because how bad infuse and LoD is in a skirmish battle.

This has more of a TA feel than an RA feel, simply because not many teams are spike-oriented, and the infuse is sometimes not worth it (despite being an almost complete heal). The LoD is also weaker, both because it's a fast paced battle and also because there's only 4 people in the group...I just find it interesting you use infuse with LoD instead of ZB in this type of battle.

Kuja · Mar 30, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

If you run ZB. Purge signet >>>>> Signet of Devotion. Both are a form of emanagement, but purge signet has much higher utility. When you really need it, it will save team/win round. I find Bar topping and idle heals are unnecesary when running ZB in small scale arena.

linh · Apr 03, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Want to become a better monk ?
Learn every basic, role and advantages of other professions.

unmatchedfury · Apr 04, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

One good way to improve you monking skills is to play all other classes to UAX.
this will allow you to almost instantly recognize builds and peg a less effective build from a more effective one. It also alows you to direct your team how to best defend you. Only in bad teams is the monk the sole defensive charator.
IN any good TA team there is at least one other defensive offenvise charactor. A hammer warrior can help shut down a thumper just liek he can shut down a monk.

Swapping weapons can be one of you greatest tools as a monk. A low energy set, anti daze set, general usage set, and a physcial resistance set is what i usually use
while on the subject of weapons i suggest that you use axe,spear, or sword. THis allows you to have less chancy mods that a wand would provide for, i.e. instead of 20% recahrge you can have +5 energy and +30 hp instead of fairly unneccesary chance mods.

Also always use High hp gear for your monk and NEVER NEVER use superior runes. i was sceptical at first but the more i play the more obvious it is that the simple fact HP= easier reaction time, is true. and + armor is generally a worse option because in the case of +10 armor on encahnt its conditional AND lest resilant to degen,vamp,and armor ignoreing melee attack skills.
( hi assasain!)

Also simple pratice helps quite alot.

urania · Apr 07, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

i always click my skills.

>=D