Curse

mrmango · Feb 16, 2007, 03:16 AM // 03:16

This has helped me a lot too. I am gonna guess on this, but for PVE when you do not have enough funds to create special case weapon sets, I suggest you don't. Save that for PVP only chars and such.

icedwhitemocha · Feb 16, 2007, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Monk Armor discussion: http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/vi...?t=224&start=0

Difference between good monks and bad monks: http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/vi...?t=576&start=0

Monk Weapon setup: http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/vi...?t=446&start=0

Catching Spikes (in 8v8, or ritspike in ta >_< ) http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/vi...?t=495&start=0

Probably the most relevant recent discussions on this topic. Team-iq probably has some good stuff but its mostly dated by now.

Patrick Smit · Feb 16, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Different monks use their interface differently. As long as the monks finds a way to use their input interface efficiently, they will be fine.

I have a term for this style of play and I call it "monk stomp". Bad players and bad teams do it straight out of the gate and never change up. It's the typical childish immature play that sums up 99% of the strategy observed in random arenas. What the hell is your team doing while you are being allowed to be monk stomped when the gate opens? They're probably trying to play "monk stomp" as well and just so happen to be slightly worse at it. Either that or your teammates are doing nothing at all, because it certainly sounds like they aren't doing anything to hinder the opposing team's plans to "monk stomp" you.

Good players and good teams know better than to play "monk stomp" 100% of the time. In fact, they play it fairly infrequently in most team builds. They also know though those certain points in a match where the pressure on the opposing team is just right and how to push down on the accelerator and execute a few seconds of monk stomping.

In case of blessed bonders monk stomp is almost inevitable, unless u have armor ignoring spells (stealing/degen/shadow damage). For other teams i notice that its often better to hassle and pressure a squishy or another annoying opponent (for example an assassin). Attention spells and energy of the monk needs to go two two targets and therefore choices have to be made. A sudden switch to monk or squishy will allow to finish off if you have spike capability. People sometimes don't like this as they think monkstomp (especially in RA) is more effective. But in teams arena that is not much of a problem. When using diversion i usually start off messing up people skill bars, very effective on assassins and spamming eles. Then i switch to the monk as some damage is being done. If he is good (veil and hexbreaker), i will usually be more effective on other players then the monk, and therfore again switch back to them. Same goes with paragon, easy to switch targets and see who is vulnerable, and or overextending. Overextenders (as One) are nice, as monks are forced to come forward as well.

bungusmaximus · Feb 16, 2007, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Hell yeah, quite a lot of useful tips, I practiced a lot and I managed to get off 7 wins in a row yesterday with a PUG. For lots of people that's probably an insignificant achievement but I was more then happy with it. At least TA is fun to monk now. I liked the monk stomp part, it's true and you can abuse it. Stupid assassin overextends to spike me down, the rest of the team insta-rapes him

.

I re-mapped my skillbar to keys that are easy to reach and I must say it helps a great deal once you're used to it. Only problem I had was pressing the RoF button and finding out I mapped it to return. Things get messy then I can tell you :P

Program Ftw · Feb 19, 2007, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I'm not sure, this is a random stab since I'm not a great Monk.

I think, it may be like playing an interupt Ranger, you need to be observant of the battle going on around you, not just the red bars going up and down.

For example, if I was playing a Ranger, against an old-school Adrenaline spike, you can spot the two Warriors suddenly moving towards a target, you can put a fairly heavy wager it will be the one to get spiked. If you have a spare interupt, and theres no Aegis or Diversions flying around, I could fire an interupt, and maybe catch an Eviscerate.

Now this is proportional to Monking, as instead of throwing an interupt at the Warrior, you would spot the Warriors running towards that target, and throw a Prot Spirit.

Hope I helped!

Correct me if I'm wrong, after all, I only really play Ranger.

Thanks,
Program~

moriz · Feb 21, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

one way to wean yourself off of the party window is to make it smaller and out of the way. mine is really narrow, and is at the bottom right corner. this allows me a large view of the battle field and still have my teammates at a convenient mouseclick away.

sage tank · Feb 22, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaotic Legend

These two things out of most of that list were what helped me the most in learning how to monk in both RA and TA. Another thing to add to the list in my opinion would be to memorize as many skills and the effects that they have as you can.

Having to mouse over to the hex on you to see what it actually does is an almost instant way to lose in arenas. This also allows you to quickly decide if the hex is a big threat or something you can just let wear off with no ill effects. Being able to act confidently and quickly without contemplation is what I think what seperates the ok monks from the great monks.

I look at the hex, there is no ill effect, honestly, when I monk I dont ever use my mouse. I mean do you? other than click ally bar, or double click veil, mouse is not much of use. I mean, you use aswd to move, 12345678 for skill activation, and there is little quarry as when you activate skill you cant move anyway. It can be beneficial to check if the hex on you is actually threatening. YES, I know most of the hex icon ranging from backfire to ether phatom. But sometime, some hex just arent that deadly. Especially in RA, ZOMG, a warrior/mes once put backfire on me. Then, i looked at it. ITS A BACK FIRE THAT DOES 42 damage. ROFL, I was like, yeah, what ever. Sometime people do dumb things, like 42 damage is going to come close in ruining monk's healing ability. it is like those 20 damage SS, or 15 damage scourage healing. Either some people forgot to adjust attribute, or just playing stupid

Miha The Warrior · Feb 23, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Well is good to have as much health as posible(dunno how to spell sry and i wont even try to). No major or Superior runes. I run monk with 570 hp main set 43 energy and 60+10 while enchanted armor.

jngrow · Feb 25, 2007, 06:04 AM // 06:04

In matches where it would otherwise be a stalemate, games can come down to solely which monk weapon swaps better.

creelie · Feb 25, 2007, 06:19 AM // 06:19

I have to say the tips in this thread have helped me out a lot. I was dubious about ever getting competent with prot, but I'm improving. I still use the party window, but I'm starting to split time between it and the screen. Protection *forces* you to track foes, because wasted enchantments get expensive fast.

Also, being intimately familiar with the woe caused by ele spikes, I am really enjoying foiling those huge spells with a single bitty RoF.

Also also, Prot Spirit + SoA = synergy of joy.

So, next question - would a PvP-style equipment set be overkill in PvE? I seem to be doing just fine with my Ascetic's Armor and Kepkhet's Refuge.

Dzan · Feb 25, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by creelie

So, next question - would a PvP-style equipment set be overkill in PvE? I seem to be doing just fine with my Ascetic's Armor and Kepkhet's Refuge.

It depends how good you want to get.

Divineshadows · Feb 25, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by creelie

So, next question - would a PvP-style equipment set be overkill in PvE? I seem to be doing just fine with my Ascetic's Armor and Kepkhet's Refuge.

You can take many lessons you learn in PvP and apply them to PvE to make gameplay go smoother. Energy insignia's and +5 energy mods (on the Refuge) are bad whether you're playing PvP or PvE. Energy management is the name of the game for casters. In PvE, I certainly don't want some dork fire ele on my team that has no energy management and is going to blow 120 energy every battle and then scream to wait for regen which takes 1.5 minutes between every mob.

In PvE, as a monk or any caster class for that matter, you want armor and as much of it as you can get. +5 armor/+5 energy spear with a shield that has +10 armor vs common damage type you expect to face. Insignias that provide +10 armor v physical are good, but a monk using draw conditions can use the +15 armor while conditioned. Stack all of this in a PvE team using stand your ground, watch yourself, and shields up and you'll see that it's quite pointless to bring the 2nd monk (if your whole team has ideal equipment) anywhere other than elite missions and just bring another damage dealer instead.

Zui · Feb 26, 2007, 04:28 AM // 04:28

I have a tip for you. It is extremely important for a Monk, or any other role in the game. Do not play Guild Wars when you haven't gotten much/any sleep for the last day or few days. You will loose to trash like Lightning Surge because you didn't see it coming, and it consistently interrupts you while you're trying to heal people.

This is a true story (sadly).

Effigy · Feb 26, 2007, 06:08 AM // 06:08

True enough. The same goes for playing Counter-Strike.

bungusmaximus · Feb 26, 2007, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

I have a tip for you. It is extremely important for a Monk, or any other role in the game. Do not play Guild Wars when you haven't gotten much/any sleep for the last day or few days. You will loose to trash like Lightning Surge because you didn't see it coming, and it consistently interrupts you while you're trying to heal people.

This is a true story (sadly).

I LOL'd at that, cos it's so true. Some people had me play an infuser in HA because they couldn't find a better one. I started infusing when targets were already dead, did it HAVE to be necro-spike? give this tired man a break :P

Thomas.knbk · Feb 26, 2007, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

So true, ppl go for the monk right away and leave the backline (being me) unprotected. relly sucks if theyre tunnel-visioned on the enemy healers while other professions are way more dangerous

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

"monk stomp". Bad players and bad teams do it

Back in the days (WAY back) when prophecies was just released, and before people had really started to run the 'good' builds, they ran healers. Word of Healing used to be a common elite. Back then, going straght for the monk was a viable strategy, and probably the best one since they could heal others way better than they could heal themselves. They didn't really have a good self heal. I think (and hope) that's where the 'omg kill monk you noob' mentality in RA was born.
Now, 2 chapters, 2 years and a lot of experience later, people thought about monk builds, got some very neat ideas, and got some very neat new skills which completely addressed the self-heal-problem (not to mention monks bring skills like Shield Bash or Dark Escape), but people still have that 'omg kill the monk you noob' mentality.
btw, great post Divineshadows

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

- Be proactive. The more you can observe your opponents' actions, the better you can play. By observing what your opponents are doing, you get playing proactively rather than reactively. You find you have slightly more time to make decisions, because you know their actions before they complete. Observing any threatening melee characters' movements helps immensely when anticipating where the damage is going to come next. Look for patterns in the way that the opposing team sends their damage at your team and observe how they are attempting to tear through your team's defense.

More specifically, this means: watch where their warriors are going and protect their target. Guardian, Shielding Hands, Shield of Absorption, and Protective Spirit are good skills to do this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

- Come equipped. Use all 4 weapon sets and make them each have some unique purpose. Create multiple shields to defend against multiple types of damage (blunt, fire, piercing, dazed reduction, etc.) and be able to switch up your weapon sets quickly depending upon the team you are facing. Having too much in your inventory is better than having not enough. Spend as much time as possible on your low energy sets that make use of shields to boost your armor rating beyond 60.

I tend to play with an open inventory with shields with +10 armor vs. all melee dmg types in it. Learn which weapons deal which type of dmg (swords/axes/scythes slashing, hammers blunt, daggers/bows spears piercing), and switch to the appropriate shield when you see one coming your way.
About high and low sets, yes. You should sit in your low set (with the shield) as much as possible. However, don't be afraid to use your +30/-2 set if you need to. A win in your high set is better than a death in your low set. This applies to GvG more than it does to TA (since you have a base to retreat to, and you res every 2 minutes), but use your high set in TA as well.
That was it. I hope you found it useful, and become a better monk

Zui · Feb 26, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

More specifically, this means: watch where their warriors are going and protect their target. Guardian, Shielding Hands, Shield of Absorption, and Protective Spirit are good skills to do this.

Shielding Hands really isn't that good of a skill, it got buffed, but it's still bad. Spirit Bond deserves a mention here as well, infact if you compare it directly against Protective Spirit, it's going to be more effective most of the time. (Although, the synergy between the two is amazing, since even if Protective Spirit reduces damage, Spirit Bond will still trigger because the damage would have been over 60[if PS reduces it below 60 anyway])

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

I tend to play with an open inventory with shields with +10 armor vs. all melee dmg types in it. Learn which weapons deal which type of dmg (swords/axes/scythes slashing, hammers blunt, daggers/bows spears piercing), and switch to the appropriate shield when you see one coming your way.

This is interesting, I tryed this once before but found that my veiw being obscured by the inventory window was just bad for playing proactively(at least with the interphase I use), so I set key binds and mouse binds for the inventory windows I wanted. I only really use "Z" and "X" now, but I used to use mouse 6 and 7 too(massively akward to push btw, since they're not actualy meant to be used with your right hand, and instead are intended to function as buttons 5 and 6 do with your right hand...) when PvEs were > PvPs. This, and organising my inventory allows quick swapping without having to have my window open the entire time, meaning I see more of what's going on in the game.

I also tend to carry Crippled, and Dazed reduction shields, in addition to Cold, Lightning, Fire, and sometimes an Earth shield.

urania · Feb 26, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

a perfect monk set should contain shields with additional armor vs any damage along with damage reducing inscriptions like -3 while hexed, +60 hp while hexed...

and shielding hands is good, especially if you play with shield+energy weapon (meeting the shield's tactic req, ofc) and if you use it in interaction with an evading stance like shield stance or soldiers defense.

Metanoia · Feb 27, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

*is sad and has colour-coded shields*

Never bothered with the absorption or conditional +HP, though. I feel I get more from +10 slashing/blunt/piercing and I guess I'm just too lazy to have an extra ~8 shields for 30 more hp when hexed... that and the -60 hit as soon as the hex ends scares me.

It's probably already been covered but I'll mention it anyway... Kiting. You can manipulate the damage being dealt to you by melee. 'Fleeing' guarantees them a critical hit, this can be useful if you're using RoF/Spirit bond. The rest of the time it's usually better to be strafing, denying them free criticals.
If you can, try falling back when under pressure to force enemies to risk overextending to reach you. Even in TA, it's surprising how often thumpers will happily skip after you 2-ish aggro bubbles away from their monk's support.
That probably seems a little silly, but I'm not 2 aggro bubbles from my team, honest. I just like to keep them between me and the enemy, and often enough enemy monks have the same idea...

Oh, one more thing... Coffee. Lots and lots of Coffee... 'Nuff said.

Ariena Najea · Mar 03, 2007, 11:06 PM // 23:06

From my experience, your defensive abilities are just as important as your healing abilities. I run a ZB/Shadow Arts build in RA and TA, and it's not failed me yet. Utilizing skills such as Dark Escape, Return, Feigned Neutrality help you to heal without constantly kiting, thus giving you more control over your ability to heal. I've had a lot of hammer warriors, bunny thumpers, blades of steel assassins, etc all come after me, you simply can't always kite away. What I use at this point is generally return to shadow step to a more secure position near one of my allies. Save skills such as Dark Escape when that's not an option.
But definitely make sure to make use of your secondary, putting points into Inspiration Magic, Shadow Arts, Earth Prayers I've seen, Tactics, anything to keep you alive while you're healing. On my ZB Shadow Arts Build I typically run my attributes 12/9/9, Protection/Divine/Shadow Arts. Don't try and run something like a 12/12/3 because you need the self-protection!