Curse

360° · Nov 10, 2007, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Excatly why I see w/rt with rend and deah pact on just about every build.

W/Rt/D ftw?

Anyways, the update sure has huge effect on meta. Less partywide healing, moar splits.

lordelg · Nov 10, 2007, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Excatly why I see w/rt with rend and deah pact on just about every build.

thats one of your most retarded comments and that says something....

Warskull · Nov 10, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

It is official izzy has snapped. Nerfing LoD like that is a really bad idea. That skill was a linchpin much of the existing balance was built around. Even if LoD is overpowered you have to go about things very delicately because of its key position in the game balance. Nerfing it like this is like just going across the board and nerfing warrior DPS.

Heal party absolutely must be outsourced now, no heal party=instawipe. Splits will be much stronger as independent runners will be far more difficult to fit in. High physical offense has lost a lot of the barriers keeping it in check.

tyrant rex · Nov 10, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

With bprots, your skills would suddenly heal 50 or less. Most spells didn't heal at all.

techically all your skills still healed since you had df and you still had skills like rof / goh later on and rly prots are still better because chances are that 1 sec orision wont do shit but ps+rof or 2 rofs will save you

Linkie · Nov 10, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

I have no idea what you guys are complaining over. Now that LoD is 2s cast, it's cycle is increased and therefore it's not only free, you actually gain energy by casting it!

Bankai · Nov 10, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrant rex

techically all your skills still healed since you had df and you still had skills like rof / goh later on and rly prots are still better because chances are that 1 sec orision wont do shit but ps+rof or 2 rofs will save you

Please learn how to spell. Jesus christ, that was aweful.

Every spell has divine favour, so I always disregard that.

Thomas.knbk · Nov 10, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

LoD was overpowered, but not imbalanced. There's a difference.

LoD was overpowered, because it was (far) more powerful than any alternative. So much in fact that people said there was no alternative to LoD.

LoD was not imbalanced. In a balanced game, a good team always beats a bad team. A good monk with LoD is going to be very effective, but a bad monk with LoD is still going to be bad, and if the good monk with LoD and the bad monk with LoD face each other, the team with the good monk is still going to win. thus not disrupting the situation where good teams beat bad teams. As opposed to lame shit that takes skill out of the equation. (heroway, thumpers, sinsplit, searing flames, NR/Tranq and bloodspike come to mind)

LoD shouldn't have been nerfed.

P.S. oh, and playing WoH is fcuking boring. This update sucks.

lacasner · Nov 10, 2007, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Thomas, what makes spamming LoD more fun than spamming WoH?

I don't know

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 11, 2007, 01:04 AM // 01:04

LoD could have gotten a slight nerf in healing power/recharge cast time shoulda been kept the same though.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Nov 11, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

I actually like this update, in a comical way it makes everything more fun to watch.

Seraphim of Chaos · Nov 11, 2007, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

LoD was overpowered, but not imbalanced. There's a difference.

LoD was overpowered, because it was (far) more powerful than any alternative. So much in fact that people said there was no alternative to LoD.

LoD was not imbalanced. In a balanced game, a good team always beats a bad team. A good monk with LoD is going to be very effective, but a bad monk with LoD is still going to be bad, and if the good monk with LoD and the bad monk with LoD face each other, the team with the good monk is still going to win. thus not disrupting the situation where good teams beat bad teams. As opposed to lame shit that takes skill out of the equation. (heroway, thumpers, sinsplit, searing flames, NR/Tranq and bloodspike come to mind)

LoD shouldn't have been nerfed.

P.S. oh, and playing WoH is fcuking boring. This update sucks.

But...

This skill update makes me feel like I'm in 2005.

twicky_kid · Nov 11, 2007, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Excatly why I see w/rt with rend and deah pact on just about every build.

Ignore this one. Too much southern comfort last night. Honestly don't even remember posting this.

Sun Fired Blank · Nov 11, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

The replacement for LoD in HA seems to be Glimmer of Light. I think the idea is that you can simply spam Glimmer and try to spam cover as much ground as LoD would have covered. I played a couple of rounds yesterday in HA with a Glimmer / Infuse, WoH / prot, and HB (with heal other / heal party) on top of an Aegis chain, and the results were pretty good. Sadly, our runs twice ended by running facefirst into GANK, and we got beaten out by a combination of not being quite as good and having little experience on the point capture maps.

I haven't seen that anyone's really come up with a good replacement monk backline for GvG yet. The best I've thought of is double WoH and an HB monk, and at least some GvG teams have started running it. One thing that I've seen is that this update has pretty firmly consolidated the need for a three monk backline, and even then, as Riotgear put it, it feels like you're really fighting a much more protracted "red bars tug of war," even through passive defenses, whereas before, it felt more like you were just trying to keep a shield of passive defenses from collapsing. It also seems really hard to find a place for any elite prot, even RC, which is a real shame.

Overall, I think this update, and the last big update, really suck in every respect, and they should generally undo most of the November 8th and October 12th updates.

Seraphim of Chaos · Nov 11, 2007, 03:26 AM // 03:26

I find it funny that the last few updates have totally shifted healing into almost all forms of PvP meta.

Captain Robo · Nov 11, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim of Chaos

I find it funny that the last few updates have totally shifted epic fail into almost all forms of PvP meta.

fixed it for you.

Snow Bunny · Nov 11, 2007, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Thomas, what makes spamming LoD more fun than spamming WoH?

I don't know

You /fail.

Sure, with LoD, you might spam it as much as possible, but LoD allowed for a much more hybrid-mentality based bar. LoD was excellent, and worked very well in balance.

WoH currently dominates because it acts close to Infuse Health.

Except without the whole "Lose your health and can't heal yourself" clause.

WoH is a spam build.

LoD took much more skill in that regard. With LoD, you had to use Guardian, RoF, and other garbage well.

With WoH, you just WoH anything that moves. It's really that simple.

suiraCLAW · Nov 11, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Huh? A woh bar has pretty much exactly the same prots as a lod bar (you still have rof, guardian, spirit bond and other "garbage").

Besides, it's not because you spam a skill on recharge that you don't need to take care of position, targetting (except if it's a radar range, party heal that targets everybody *cough* ) and energy.

Riotgear · Nov 11, 2007, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Perhaps I should elaborate, the reason WoH is lame is the same reason just about any single-target heal is lame, because it's reactive. Traditionally, reactive healing is your low-efficiency, last-resort which was designed to consume the absolute minimum of your energy pool and be reserved for the stuff that makes it through prot and other pre-emptive measures.

Making it a key component turns that on its head. If simply pushing red bars back up rivals tactically-intensive measures like prot and midline support, then you can afford to get a lot sloppier, and then it just comes down to whether or not you're going to be able to deliver red-bar-go-up before red bar goes completely empty. With a 3/4 sec cast, you usually can. It turns into a battle of reflexes.

LoD served more of a maintenance role, you certainly couldn't use it to powerheal to the point where you had to question whether prot was worth it or not.

Thomas.knbk · Nov 11, 2007, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Riot beat me to it.

To heal, you need to see which characters have taken damage. To prot, you need to predict which characters are going to take damage. The former is reactive, the latter is proactive. Reactive damage migration will always take less skill than proactive damage migration, and should therefore always be less effective. This update basically buffed a reactive damage migrator to migrate just as much damage as a proactive damage migrator will usually do (I think 150 is a quite decent average for something like guardian or SoA), exept it requires way less skill. Oh, and it has the potential to migrate even more damage.

That's pretty much why I think it was a bad buff.

Shuuda · Nov 11, 2007, 12:34 PM // 12:34

I do agree that WoH needs to be toned down, maybe put the recharge to 5 seconds, then change the uncondional healing back to what it was before, and buff the conditional healing. Therefore it would still be a good skill to use in emergencies like ZB is.

But really, to me, buffing the conditional healing would have made more sense.