Curse

glountz · Nov 15, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

On a side note, DA SoJ sins are left untouched.
Their lack of e-management and mobility makes them useless for long battles such as GvG or HB (I don't do HB, don't know if they are used here.)
But in TA (and more and more in RA), they are such a plague it forces you to bring Aura of stability, play balanced stance monk or shitty WoRemedy rit + Balth pendulum smiter team.

Would be good if DP was toned down again, like 33% only on recharge (not cast), 10 energy to further harass e-management of DA sins, and to balance it, remove the "attack disable for 10 secs" close. It would open it for interesting mixed dagger/Deadly arts combos.

Just food for TA thought.

twicky_kid · Nov 15, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Would be good if DP was toned down again, like 33% only on recharge (not cast), 10 energy to further harass e-management of DA sins, and to balance it, remove the "attack disable for 10 secs" close. It would open it for interesting mixed dagger/Deadly arts combos.

Reducing recharge on attack skills like temple strike is not a good idea. 33% recharge would cut it down to a 10 recharge while its affects last 7-8 seconds.

Allowing it to recharge attack skills would make the skill even more broken than it already is.

kosh · Nov 15, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

On a side note, DA SoJ sins are left untouched.
Their lack of e-management and mobility makes them useless for long battles such as GvG or HB (I don't do HB, don't know if they are used here.)
But in TA (and more and more in RA), they are such a plague it forces you to bring Aura of stability, play balanced stance monk or shitty WoRemedy rit + Balth pendulum smiter team.

Would be good if DP was toned down again, like 33% only on recharge (not cast), 10 energy to further harass e-management of DA sins, and to balance it, remove the "attack disable for 10 secs" close. It would open it for interesting mixed dagger/Deadly arts combos.

Just food for TA thought.

Ta,Ab,RA.... its either the SOj sin, the rt/a, the D/a... all the builds that utilize deadly paradox into a crappy meta. tunning down deadly from 50% to 33% had almost no effect on the build. its the plague of those arenas. its a skill that should not BE in a balance game. make it pve only? i lol if that will happen, which will not.
how about...

Deadly Paradox
All of your attack Skills are disabled for 10 seconds. For 5...13 seconds, your Assassin Skills activate and recharge 25% faster.
5E 20 recharge.

this just top of my head. lets hear some bright ideas how to tune it down.

LifesRestorer · Nov 15, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

when this stance ends, all of your non-attack skills are disabled for 10 seconds

kosh · Nov 15, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

when this stance ends, all of your non-attack skills are disabled for 10 seconds

and how will this help???

it never ends....

but, the idea of changing the 1st part of it is good. since all its usage atm is on deadly arts it just bypass it draw back. the 10 sec disable on the attack skiils does nothing atm. on the other hand we cant just drop it because then will see 10X more gimmick builds around this skill.

Riotgear · Nov 15, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Remove the skill disable. Make it affect the next skill only.

- PvE shadow form farming tards don't have to cry.
- It can actually find use in non-gimmick applications.
- Spammer builds get kicked in the face.

Holy shit I am smart.

moriz · Nov 15, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

deadly paradox:
for 3 seconds, your skills activate and recharge 10%.....49% faster.

Shuuda · Nov 15, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

I appreciate all the QQ to my post. Proves that there are two sides to the debate. As for high-level GvG, I realize that doing a reliable and useful split is near impossible without having some way to shut down sins ganking you. The post was made in reference to HA, the thing I actually play. I apologize for not putting a disclaimer.

There are two sides, the right side, and the wrong side, your on the wrong, everyone who accepts assassins are imbalanced/broken/badly implemented are on the right side. And if your only arguement is HA, it's not very strong considering the people in HA.

Quote:

I find it ironic all the "bad design decision" posts about the Assassin, when nearly every MMO from the dawn of time has a Rogue class of some variety. ArenaNet took that idea and translated it into a unique class that's weak with consistent damage (something EVERY other class is awesome with), but is able to put a large damage spike in a short amount of time. Sins by nature will shake things up. Bummer that every major build is built with layer on layer of defense to block generically anything.

You forget that GW is not like most other MMOs, GW actually has/had some focus on PvP, things that work in most MMOs will not work in GWs PvP, the whole "Rogue" thing is an example.

kosh · Nov 15, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

deadly paradox:
for 3 seconds, your skills activate and recharge 10%.....49% faster.

this can be very abusive. shadow form sins are going to have a blast with that in aB ... more thing we just cant kill, attack. on that note. im getting sick and tired of the e/d earth crap. all those cant touch, i cant die, sliver armor wipe npc etc. some skill in this game must be pve only. go izzy.

yeah u can get enc removal etc.. and yeah they can die. but the concept of those builds (farming pve builds) that have found there way in pvp (i still consider ab to be some form of pvp even though if were talking about broken builds ab is the mother of all.) is just worng.

Servant of Kali · Nov 15, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I like how we didn't need to wait 3 months for next skill update, so that's a good thing.

However, any chance that we get more buffs which won't get nerfed in 2 weeks? I am talking about 800 useless skills. Some of these are actually quite interesting in design, and can open up some quite interesting options without being overpowered. I mean, if you spent time designing these skills, wouldn't it be cool to actually buff/tweak them into seeing play, so that all that design wasn't useless?

For instance:
- Overload (not many spells have long cast duration as it was a situation in Prophecies.. this Skill could be quite fun if it actually had decent dmg)
- Chaos Storm (buff?, and PvErs would appreciate it too)
- Dark Aura
- Balthazar's Pendulum
- Dwayna's Sorrow (no one wants to die, and if one plans to benefit on deaths it should pay off)
- Spell Shield
- Supportive Spirit
- Unyielding Aura (it's the only elite rez in the game, shouldn't it actually do something valuable and fun?)
- Belly Smash (supposedly buggy? if it still is... plus, compared to Throw Dirt... uh...)

etc

Riotgear · Nov 15, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I wouldn't say the whole "rogue" thing has worked in any game. "Sneakiness" bullshit basically means that you have a class that can completely ignore the tactical rules of the game and go up to people and one-shot them on command. (See: WoW, City of Heroes) Obviously this is broken. So they "balance" this ridiculousness off by making them a glass cannon that gets mowed down as soon as their tactics-avoiding garbage (usually stealth, in WoW stunlocking as well) is sidestepped.

Obviously this isn't something that can be balanced properly: Either they can kill anything they want whenever they want, or they can't kill anything and die a lot.

"Rogue" classes are bad for PvP.

Servant of Kali · Nov 15, 2007, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

deadly paradox:
for 3 seconds, your skills activate and recharge 10%.....49% faster.

I have a better solution to that skill:

Deadly Paradox. Skill. This kill either does nothing, or the caster of the skill DIES.

moriz · Nov 15, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

let them have their blast. they're no danger to anybody when they need to spec 14 in shadow arts and 13 in deadly arts just to have that infinitely maintained shadow form. deadly arts spam is not dangerous without deadly paradox fueling it.

oh oops, i forgot to write down the rest of it: 20 second recharge, disables all attack skill for 10 seconds.

TaCktiX · Nov 15, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Deadly Paradox. Enchantment Spell. All your attack skill are disabled for 10 seconds. For 5...13 seconds your Assassin skills cast and recharge 33% faster.

Problem solved. Mesmers and Necros strip enchantments quite often in 4v4.

Captain Robo · Nov 15, 2007, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Deadly Paradox. Enchantment Spell. All your attack skill are disabled for 10 seconds. For 5...13 seconds your Assassin skills cast and recharge 33% faster.

Problem solved. Mesmers and Necros strip enchantments quite often in 4v4.

That's a bad counterbalance; it makes you dependent on having a Mesmer or Necro.

I'd say just make the damn thing elite and call it a day.

The Real Roy Keane · Nov 15, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

I like how we didn't need to wait 3 months for next skill update, so that's a good thing.

However, any chance that we get more buffs which won't get nerfed in 2 weeks? I am talking about 800 useless skills. Some of these are actually quite interesting in design, and can open up some quite interesting options without being overpowered. I mean, if you spent time designing these skills, wouldn't it be cool to actually buff/tweak them into seeing play, so that all that design wasn't useless?

For instance:
- Overload (not many spells have long cast duration as it was a situation in Prophecies.. this Skill could be quite fun if it actually had decent dmg)
- Chaos Storm (buff?, and PvErs would appreciate it too)
- Dark Aura
- Balthazar's Pendulum
- Dwayna's Sorrow (no one wants to die, and if one plans to benefit on deaths it should pay off)
- Spell Shield
- Supportive Spirit
- Unyielding Aura (it's the only elite rez in the game, shouldn't it actually do something valuable and fun?)
- Belly Smash (supposedly buggy? if it still is... plus, compared to Throw Dirt... uh...)

etc

There are enough useable skills as it is - as has been said a thousand times already, the broken ones need to be addressed first. Oh, and Balthazar's Pendulum isn't THAT bad.

Riotgear · Nov 15, 2007, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

Oh, and Balthazar's Pendulum isn't THAT bad.

Yes, yes it is. It's worse than Aura of Stability, and Aura of Stability is not elite.

Bankai · Nov 15, 2007, 07:55 PM // 19:55

I can see Balthazar's pendulum working on a runner.

When all other elites are really bad.

Or on a smiter's boon runner.

revaer · Nov 15, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

I liked the SP and SR nerfs.

Captain Robo · Nov 15, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

I can see Balthazar's pendulum working on a runner.

When all other elites are really bad.

Or on a smiter's boon runner.

Okay, so that warrior won't be able to knock you down.

But when he's beating your face in, wouldn't you rather have SoR?