Curse

Ensign · Nov 15, 2007, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

this is a biased opinion and there is no factual evidence to support nor refute it. i will simply disagree with you, and surely others out there though silent disagree as well.

Evidence:

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

Quote:

So wait, you're saying that you SHOULD be able to kill people by pressing 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 through any sort of positioning, blocks, and with powerful KDs to hold them in position and keep them from protecting themselves?

yes.

The defense rests.

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 15, 2007, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Yes, you got us. The top guilds and players have universally been calling for assassin nerfs because we are all bad.

jaeharys targaryen · Nov 15, 2007, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Have you ever played a ranger or played with a ranger on vent? It's pretty common to hear "LoD d-sho....BLOCKED?!?!??!"

Plus shorter recharge means more ability to interrupt.

apparently i cant read. gotta take the heat on that one.
and:

Quote:

but what about the rest of us who WERE quietly satisfied with our sins?

all 3 of you?

BlackSephir · Nov 15, 2007, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Hopefully they remove it completely from PvP. It has always been a one dimensional character that added absolutely nothing to the depth of the game.

Wasn't crap-talk, I mean, "remove class x from the game" forbidden earlier here, since it won't happen and it's no use talking about it?
Might as well write something useful, y'know.

Quote:

Uhm, actually, the necro has never seen any play except with soul reaping and spirit exploits. So you can say that they have with this nerf practically been removed from the game.

Wow, this is so awesome and totally different than what I meant, and I think you know it, gz!

Kaon · Nov 15, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

, and changing Impale to 1 second has changed nothing.

Actually you can now INTERRUPT it

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

A lot of people don't appreciate the mind game that facing assassins is. You have to get into the "mind of a killer" and react based on that. People complain because their lightning-fast reflexes aren't good enough, when if they played the mind game, they would beat a sin every time. It's always been easy to shut down a sin, even at their Shadow Prison/Burst of Aggression peak.

All the hate, complaining, and nerfing about the sin was because people don't understand how to approach countering a sin. They're SUPPOSED to do massive damage in a chain style. Interrupt their chain and they're worthless. They're SUPPOSED to jump in on a straggling enemy and beat them senseless in 5 seconds. Position yourself near your team or be ready to defend against the sin. They're SUPPOSED to have deadly killing power in 4-5 skills. Use pre-prot. Concerted damage on a sin will drop him very quickly. Assassins keep PvP accountable to itself, for they do not allow room for sloppiness. It's sad ANet has caved to people not understanding that.

Please play gvg regularly on high level before replying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Wasn't crap-talk, I mean, "remove class x from the game" forbidden earlier here, since it won't happen and it's no use talking about it?
Might as well write something useful, y'know.

Uhm, actually, the necro has never seen any play except with soul reaping and spirit exploits. So you can say that they have with this nerf practically been removed from the game.

Aerial Assault · Nov 15, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Evidence:

The defense rests.

What is the Assassin for then? Something's gotta be there to cut through the wards, the guardians, the SoD's, the defensive anthems, the Aegis' , the defensive stances...

moko · Nov 15, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

agree completely. and sins are supposed to be better than warriors at killing (yeah that's what i said)

Quote:

this is a biased opinion and there is no factual evidence to support nor refute it.

hey, look, replied to your own post?

no more craptastic posts from unexperienced players please. i'm letting this one go but the next hint of stupidity goes boom.

Quote:

Please play gvg regularly on high level before replying.

please listen to Kaon.

jaeharys targaryen · Nov 15, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial Assault

What is the assassin for then? Something's gotta be there to cut through the wards, the guardians, the SoD's, the defensive anthems, the Aegis' , the defensive stances...

i am moderately interested into how this will play out.

Elrodien · Nov 15, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

I don't think sins got hit that hard by this recent update - I'd have hit them much harder.

The WoH change was needed but it is still a great skill, but the most important and best changes was to the key skills that the ever so lame heroway use in gvg. Of course, this change implies that Anet aren't going to change their stance on allowing heroes into pvp which is sad as gvg/ha is meant to be a team game played by players not bots.

But, staying on-topic, good changes overall, but don't rest on your laurels Izzy, there is still much work to be done

Bankai · Nov 15, 2007, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial Assault

What is the Assassin for then? Something's gotta be there to cut through the wards, the guardians, the SoD's, the defensive anthems, the Aegis' , the defensive stances...

Eles already do that.

glountz · Nov 15, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

On MAgebane:
Tried it out in RA with a crappy build:

[skill]Magebane shot[/skill][skill]Savage shot[/skill][skill]Distracting shot[/skill][skill]Concussion shot[/skill][skill]Favorable winds[/skill][wiki]Expert Focus[/wiki][skill]Lightning reflexes[/skill]

It's godly. Really simply godly. You just.... well, interrupt like hell. Here, expert focus helped me firing interrupts with no energy drawback (Magebane and D-shot cost 1, Savage costs 4, so you can "spam" concussion, but you don't really need concussion shot to fire only interrupts with your bow, so any preparation is okay provided you don't bring concussion). Casters with more than 1 secs cast (or even less if they don't randomize their casts while under interrupt) are completely screwed.

Don't know if it will go beyond 4v4, though. But I can see the "no block" magebane go into GvG, considering the big amount of block there is there.

I think magebane is now on-par, no, better than BHA (edit I mistaked here). BHA can be avoided easily and can be blocked, thing that often happen as monks preprot.

frojack · Nov 15, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial Assault

What is the Assassin for then? Something's gotta be there to cut through the wards, the guardians, the SoD's, the defensive anthems, the Aegis' , the defensive stances...

Well yeah, sins are pretty bad. Some seem to think that just 'bcoz' they have the ability to instagib it's fine for the game. It's not. Simple as that. It was a bad design idea for a class that does the game more harm than good (much like the early incarnation of ritualist spirits).

So they are going to be weaker after the bad they do to the game is 'fixed'. However before the meta-game can start looking creatively and 'positively' at non-degenerative uses for sins (with buff support from Izzy hopefully), their filth needs to go...

Thomas.knbk · Nov 15, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Idiotic RA rangers who sit on a monk and spam interrupts hoping to catch RoF have never been happier.

True. I actually interrupted a spirit bond and RoF consecutively yesterday. I think it's only a matter of time before I magebane a magebane or Dshot a Dshot.

i m gud ranger ok?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial Assault

What is the Assassin for then? Something's gotta be there to cut through the wards, the guardians, the SoD's, the defensive anthems, the Aegis' , the defensive stances...

Actually, there's no reason something that undermines all existant defensive systems should exist, and it's RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stupid Anet introduced it in the first place.

glountz · Nov 15, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

True. I actually interrupted a spirit bond and RoF consecutively yesterday. I think it's only a matter of time before I magebane a magebane or Dshot a Dshot.

i m gud ranger ok?

Bah. BHA rangers are nubs then. Apply poison, go adjacent range, fire BHA. Attack. I m gud ranger ok?

I don't think good monks will be affected that much by Magebane mindless spam. They will wait for the ranger to fire, then cast in the aftercast delay. I m gud mnk ok?

Sinful Doom · Nov 15, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

well anet, congratulations on making the assassin a completely undesirable class to play.

I will now cry for your loss, ok I'm done crying. In all honesty nearly everything the assassin class has brought to PvP has been a gimmick. Shadowstepping, Shadowform, sin chain spike, wand wielding Deadly Paradox A/Mo's, Feigned Neutrality, Expose Defenses etc... The class in general is just bad and very poorly implemented.

Kaon · Nov 15, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinful Doom

I will now cry for your loss, ok I'm done crying. In all honesty nearly everything the assassin class has brought to PvP has been a gimmick. Shadowstepping, Shadowform, sin chain spike, wand wielding Deadly Paradox A/Mo's, Feigned Neutrality, Expose Defenses etc... The class in general is just bad and very poorly implemented.

Agree, agree agree, sins are bad for the game.

But you gotta admit that the feeling you had when playing an AoD sin right after factions release, zipping through opponent defenses, being everywhere, that feeling was unmatched.

Assassins can be VERY fun to play, and have added very interesting tactical possibilities, but in the end, they do more harm than good

.

Snow Bunny · Nov 15, 2007, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

The sin nerf was overkill. Expose Defenses had already seen a nerf, Horns of the Ox was devastating for its KD, not its damage, and changing Impale to 1 second has changed nothing. I remember when RA wasn't a huge batch of melee hate. I knew I had killing power, the other team knew I had killing power, so I played mind games, making the monk think he was next, forcing him to waste a prot on himself, when I turn around and hit the ele.

A lot of people don't appreciate the mind game that facing assassins is. You have to get into the "mind of a killer" and react based on that. People complain because their lightning-fast reflexes aren't good enough, when if they played the mind game, they would beat a sin every time. It's always been easy to shut down a sin, even at their Shadow Prison/Burst of Aggression peak.

All the hate, complaining, and nerfing about the sin was because people don't understand how to approach countering a sin. They're SUPPOSED to do massive damage in a chain style. Interrupt their chain and they're worthless. They're SUPPOSED to jump in on a straggling enemy and beat them senseless in 5 seconds. Position yourself near your team or be ready to defend against the sin. They're SUPPOSED to have deadly killing power in 4-5 skills. Use pre-prot. Concerted damage on a sin will drop him very quickly. Assassins keep PvP accountable to itself, for they do not allow room for sloppiness. It's sad ANet has caved to people not understanding that.

You don't play at any high level of pvp.

You're dumb for thinking that you know more than the people here.

Sure, they're designed to do absurdly massive amounts of damage in tiny amounts of design.
Then the design sucks.

SebaZ · Nov 15, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

well anet, congratulations on making the assassin a completely undesirable class to play.

I so hope you're right.

TaCktiX · Nov 15, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

I appreciate all the QQ to my post. Proves that there are two sides to the debate. As for high-level GvG, I realize that doing a reliable and useful split is near impossible without having some way to shut down sins ganking you. The post was made in reference to HA, the thing I actually play. I apologize for not putting a disclaimer.

If anything, the assassin should have good and fast damage with a L-O-D combo. No Deadly Arts not-even-using-daggers crap, no O-D-O-D stuff. I know Black Lotus was changed to Lead Attack for that reason. The assassin should have serious damage power IF they are allowed to get off their entire combo. You negate any part of the combo, and you'll survive.

I find it ironic all the "bad design decision" posts about the Assassin, when nearly every MMO from the dawn of time has a Rogue class of some variety. ArenaNet took that idea and translated it into a unique class that's weak with consistent damage (something EVERY other class is awesome with), but is able to put a large damage spike in a short amount of time. Sins by nature will shake things up. Bummer that every major build is built with layer on layer of defense to block generically anything.

Yichi · Nov 15, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial Assault

What is the Assassin for then? Something's gotta be there to cut through the wards, the guardians, the SoD's, the defensive anthems, the Aegis' , the defensive stances...

The assassin is for nothing more than the amusement of all the 12 year old naruto fanboys that wanted a "Ninja" in the game. Seriously. Go look at every post before Factions came out, someone was calling for a "Ninja" in almost every one of them.

Assassins were ment, designed, and developed to me a manuverable skirmisher (spelling?) and nothing more. What they have evolved into thanks to certian chains and skills being overpowered, is an almost instagib class that takes no player skill to play other than pressing buttons 1-6 in a repetative manner. By toning down the power of these chains and limiting the range of their movement, you will have a much more flexible class that can reward the player skill of the player utilizing the class and will punish the player with a lack of understanding of the class. The perfect example of this is a Ranger. A ranger is a perfect utility tool as the assassin class could very well become with the right balancing. Put a ranger in the hands of a good player and your team can be rewarded greatly by it. Put it in the hands of a bad player and youre basically playing a man down the entire game because effectively that character will do nothing except get a lucky interrupt on a meh skill that has no real effect on the outcome of the game.