Curse

Riotgear · Nov 15, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Well, Pin down has a long recharge, so your can't subdue mobs with it, and is ineffective if it's removed.

Cripshot depends on teammates to provide the killing power. AB teams are notorious for fragmenting.
Cripshot used defensively depends on teammates kiting enemies. AB players are notorious for not kiting.
Cripshot is good for snaring multiple people. Considering almost everything is either an oversized brawl or fleeing stragglers, Pin Down suffices for stragglers, and due to the previous issue, snaring multiple players is superfluous.
Cripshot's spammability makes it vulnerable to condition removal. AB players are notorious for not bringing decent condition removal.
Cripshot is good for cutting through block. People in AB don't normally put up block stances while running away or running in, they do it while in combat, and Guardian/Aegis barely exist.

In other words, just about anything Cripshot is good for is irrelevant in AB. Pin Down's longer duration means less time re-crippling them and more time spent making them dead, which in turn means less time wasting time on them and more time completing objectives.

BA is better than Cripshot in AB for the same reason Backfire is better than Diversion, because when you're dealing with bad players, the most useful debuff at your disposal is "Dead."

If you want to discuss this further, then post in the Cripshot thread in the AB forum.

Jesse · Nov 15, 2007, 01:54 AM // 01:54

wonder what the new meta is gonna be now that sway is gone...

MB shot is awsome now and like everyone else said.....WoH needed that little kick down.

the only thing i dont get why is the pets not leaving exploitable corspes, they die like everything else too why make them different.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 15, 2007, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

In other words, just about anything Cripshot is good for is irrelevant in AB. Pin Down's longer duration means less time re-crippling them and more time spent making them dead, which in turn means less time wasting time on them and more time completing objectives.

But you can't stall 4-5 people at once with pin down. Of course, the only times I play AB are when I'm looking for maximum enjoyment, and annoying/rendering useless 4 people because they're bad at life is more fun.

And to be on topic, is Magebane seeing a lot of use in arenas? I'd imagine that magebane + dshot would be really powerful in a 4v4 environment.

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 15, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Idiotic RA rangers who sit on a monk and spam interrupts hoping to catch RoF have never been happier.

X Cytherea X · Nov 15, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21

well anet, congratulations on making the assassin a completely undesirable class to play.

the once awesome black lotus strike is dead. it's not even worth looking at anymore, it pains me to read it.

you killed double black, but lead-offhand-dual still sucks.

you neutered kd damage, which werent even a problem. nobody was complaining about the damage. and the ox attacks are already conditional, and fulfilling these conditions is barely even worth it considering the pathetic damage.

you kicked expose in the face so many times it's totally unrecognizable

i dont know what to say anymore, people complained about the sin and you listened to them. now they're happy. but what about the rest of us who WERE quietly satisfied with our sins? what have you left us with? nothing.

i doubt any other sin users will back me up. we're hated so much, this place is very unhospitable. and the complainers are appeased. no reason to change any of it back. nerf the unblockable sin and deadly art sin too while you're at it. i have lost all respect for ANET and its balancers. please tell them that, ANDREW PATRICK.

yeah cue the QQ noob comments at me, im ready

Living Parasite · Nov 15, 2007, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

yeah cue the QQ noob comments at me, im ready

QQ.

On a more serious note, we can also resume playing normally w/o the threat of some stupid 1-2-3-4 instaspike.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 15, 2007, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

well anet, congratulations on making the assassin a completely undesirable class to play.

the once awesome black lotus strike is dead. it's not even worth looking at anymore, it pains me to read it.

you killed double black, but lead-offhand-dual still sucks.

you neutered kd damage, which werent even a problem. nobody was complaining about the damage. and the ox attacks are already conditional, and fulfilling these conditions is barely even worth it considering the pathetic damage.

you kicked expose in the face so many times it's totally unrecognizable

i dont know what to say anymore, people complained about the sin and you listened to them. now they're happy. but what about the rest of us who WERE quietly satisfied with our sins? what have you left us with? nothing.

i doubt any other sin users will back me up. we're hated so much, this place is very unhospitable. and the complainers are appeased. no reason to change any of it back. nerf the unblockable sin and deadly art sin too while you're at it. i have lost all respect for ANET and its balancers. please tell them that, ANDREW PATRICK.

yeah cue the QQ noob comments at me, im ready

So wait, you're saying that you SHOULD be able to kill people by pressing 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 through any sort of positioning, blocks, and with powerful KDs to hold them in position and keep them from protecting themselves?

I'll agree that lead-offhand-dual sucks, but ANet needed to kick double-duals in the face before they can even think about trying to make the class useful. It was just a bad concept in general. Now if they want to make viable lead chains they can (and they have in SA tbh), but finally without the ridiculous 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 instakill chains that were taking over every aspect of PvP.

ensoriki · Nov 15, 2007, 04:49 AM // 04:49

L-O-D doesn't suck
L-O-D is too average why use a average build when you can use an extraordinary build.
L-O-D is 3 skill slots thats just 1,2,3.

Using a Lead with an Off hand that can skip a lead lets an assassin use 2 skills out of sequence.
L-O-D Disrupting dagger is 4 skills, with disrupting being utility, 3 skills for more utility/defense 1 for res.

Stop complaining that, 1234567 is all they can do.
Im sure your all smart enough to know its not, so rephrase it to simply reflect on the builds that do and not at the class as a whole. Thank you.

The black Lotus change does not bother me, I actually like it and prefer it this way. The problem is there is now becoming a decline in Off-hand attacks. I would suggest Desperate Strike became an Off-hand attack.
The only thing that bothered me was the Horns change, the pet change was just something to go WTF over.

Finally, whether you like me or not, I would ask that if you wish to argue the assassin.
Go ahead and Argue shadow steps and anything else you can find to complain about.
Personally I'd complain about there walking Sprite, that needs a buff.
But the class as a whole does not need to 1234567 that is just what players seem to do at this current age in time. Players like to do all sorts of thing's like use smite monks (It happens, so don't attack me for that)
that is not the problem of the monk.

Go ahead and flame, you have done it already I am not phased.
I expect a PM about how idiotic this post is as well.
Well do me a favor, when you do this, put a reason why. Thank you

Shmanka · Nov 15, 2007, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

So, LoD is still a 2s cast?

what's going on here?

Magebane bait?

Riotgear · Nov 15, 2007, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

But you can't stall 4-5 people at once with pin down.

Unless I'm crunching the numbers wrong, you can maintain cripple on 3 people with cripshot if you spam it back-to-back, or 2 people if your energy starts to run low.

Quote:

Of course, the only times I play AB are when I'm looking for maximum enjoyment, and annoying/rendering useless 4 people because they're bad at life is more fun.

Hex builds are more fun for that IMO. Using Imagined Burden on stragglers in particular puts a smile on my face.

Bankai · Nov 15, 2007, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

you killed double black, but lead-offhand-dual still sucks.

People have been playing for a long time without Double blacks. Double black is stronger than LOD. But that doesn't mean LOD sucks.

The problem with this is that the attacks go up in strength the further you get into the chain- at least, they're supposed to. Leads are shitty, Offhands are so-so, Duals are awesome. There have always been way to skip lead attacks, but these were usually at a great cost, or you could only do it once in a chain. Sins weren't built to be able to use two doubles in one chain, it makes them way too strong.

Sun Fired Blank · Nov 15, 2007, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

is Magebane seeing a lot of use in arenas?

Magebane is nightmarish in arenas. It burns through any form of block that you can bring, and it's pretty much impossible to make blind stick on a ranger, so if you don't have enough hexes to shut the ranger down (and in TA, this would likely have to be done through Expel Hexes), you're boned. So it pretty much guarentees that if you put it on a good ranger, that ranger is going to disable whatever he or she is shooting it. That said, not many people seem to have figured it out yet, probably because most rangers in the arenas are really bad. They're only smart enough to walk up to the monk's face and BHA, and/or mindlessly spam BA / savage / distracting at said monk. God forbid they deliberately try and hit something with an interrupt.

Kaon · Nov 15, 2007, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

Magebane is nightmarish in arenas. It burns through any form of block that you can bring, and it's pretty much impossible to make blind stick on a ranger, so if you don't have enough hexes to shut the ranger down (and in TA, this would likely have to be done through Expel Hexes), you're boned. So it pretty much guarentees that if you put it on a good ranger, that ranger is going to disable whatever he or she is shooting it. That said, not many people seem to have figured it out yet, probably because most rangers in the arenas are really bad. They're only smart enough to walk up to the monk's face and BHA, and/or mindlessly spam BA / savage / distracting at said monk. God forbid they deliberately try and hit something with an interrupt.

Hi im positioning, with my friends fast cast and blind. Unless you're using 1+second casting times your argument is invalid.

red orc · Nov 15, 2007, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

Magebane is nightmarish in arenas. It burns through any form of block that you can bring, and it's pretty much impossible to make blind stick on a ranger, so if you don't have enough hexes to shut the ranger down (and in TA, this would likely have to be done through Expel Hexes), you're boned. So it pretty much guarentees that if you put it on a good ranger, that ranger is going to disable whatever he or she is shooting it. That said, not many people seem to have figured it out yet, probably because most rangers in the arenas are really bad. They're only smart enough to walk up to the monk's face and BHA, and/or mindlessly spam BA / savage / distracting at said monk. God forbid they deliberately try and hit something with an interrupt.

What is new ?
Even way before this MB buff, whenever I was playing a curse necro, the ranger was #1 target for shutdown, then came the warrior and then the other melee. If you can not keep the ranger shutdown long enough it is GG anyways. he does not need MB for that, the other 2 interrupts will do the job just fine.

Dzan · Nov 15, 2007, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

People have been playing for a long time without Double blacks. Double black is stronger than LOD. But that doesn't mean LOD sucks.

The problem with this is that the attacks go up in strength the further you get into the chain- at least, they're supposed to. Leads are shitty, Offhands are so-so, Duals are awesome. There have always been way to skip lead attacks, but these were usually at a great cost, or you could only do it once in a chain. Sins weren't built to be able to use two doubles in one chain, it makes them way too strong.

Remember that LOD chains suck for much the same reason Sever - Gash - Final sucks compared to Eviscerate - Executioners. Why use 3 skills to do what two can do? A-net already established that 2 skill combos are the premium melee staple that all others are judged against with Evis->Exe so anything that doesn't have a remarkable effect by the second skill is strictly inferior to just bringing a warrior.

TLLOTS · Nov 15, 2007, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Hi im positioning, with my friends fast cast and blind. Unless you're using 1+second casting times your argument is invalid.

Hi, I'm anticipation; I predict when people are likely to cast and nail them with spammable interrupts.

JR · Nov 15, 2007, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

well anet, congratulations on making the assassin a completely undesirable class to play.

Hopefully they remove it completely from PvP. It has always been a one dimensional character that added absolutely nothing to the depth of the game.

X Cytherea X · Nov 15, 2007, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

So wait, you're saying that you SHOULD be able to kill people by pressing 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 through any sort of positioning, blocks, and with powerful KDs to hold them in position and keep them from protecting themselves?

yes.

Quote:

I'll agree that lead-offhand-dual sucks, but ANet needed to kick double-duals in the face before they can even think about trying to make the class useful. It was just a bad concept in general. Now if they want to make viable lead chains they can (and they have in SA tbh), but finally without the ridiculous 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 instakill chains that were taking over every aspect of PvP.

Quote:

The problem with this is that the attacks go up in strength the further you get into the chain- at least, they're supposed to. Leads are shitty, Offhands are so-so, Duals are awesome. There have always been way to skip lead attacks, but these were usually at a great cost, or you could only do it once in a chain. Sins weren't built to be able to use two doubles in one chain, it makes them way too strong.

BUT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO KILL THINGS AND BE GOOD AT IT.

Quote:

ensoriki: blah blah blah

you dont know sins and you dont know wtf you're talking about. your build postings in the sin forum made me cringe. play another class please.

Quote:

Remember that LOD chains suck for much the same reason Sever - Gash - Final sucks compared to Eviscerate - Executioners. Why use 3 skills to do what two can do? A-net already established that 2 skill combos are the premium melee staple that all others are judged against with Evis->Exe so anything that doesn't have a remarkable effect by the second skill is strictly inferior to just bringing a warrior.

agree completely. and sins are supposed to be better than warriors at killing (yeah that's what i said)

Quote:

Hopefully they remove it completely from PvP. It has always been a one dimensional character that added absolutely nothing to the depth of the game.

this is a biased opinion and there is no factual evidence to support nor refute it. i will simply disagree with you, and surely others out there though silent disagree as well.

Iotan · Nov 15, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

this is a biased opinion and there is no factual evidence to support nor refute it. i will simply disagree with you, and surely others out there though silent disagree as well.

Your post is filled with so much stupidity but I'll concentrate only on this last part.

Since Factions, what roles has the Assassin had in any real PvP? The only real builds have been AoD and SP, both of which are incredibly one-dimensional: press your teleport button and then 1-4 while hoping that your opponent didn't blind you. What happens if your combo doesn't net a kill? Run away and wait for your skills to recharge because you have crap armor, no utility and no ranged skills.

The assassin seems to have been built for skirmishes but is completely hit-or-miss with its effectiveness. Either you mindlessly spam your attack skills and the target dies or you mindlessly spam your attack skills, your target lives and you get your face kicked in for advancing into the enemy's lines.

The idea of the assassin combo (lead, off-hand, dual) is poorly thought out and poorly implemented. There's no time in-between attacks to think so you either que them up or attack too slowly to kill anything. The only real skill comes from choosing the right target to spike and when to teleport in, which is far less skill than any other class requires.

So summing up: assassins are bad.

TaCktiX · Nov 15, 2007, 01:09 PM // 13:09

The sin nerf was overkill. Expose Defenses had already seen a nerf, Horns of the Ox was devastating for its KD, not its damage, and changing Impale to 1 second has changed nothing. I remember when RA wasn't a huge batch of melee hate. I knew I had killing power, the other team knew I had killing power, so I played mind games, making the monk think he was next, forcing him to waste a prot on himself, when I turn around and hit the ele.

A lot of people don't appreciate the mind game that facing assassins is. You have to get into the "mind of a killer" and react based on that. People complain because their lightning-fast reflexes aren't good enough, when if they played the mind game, they would beat a sin every time. It's always been easy to shut down a sin, even at their Shadow Prison/Burst of Aggression peak.

All the hate, complaining, and nerfing about the sin was because people don't understand how to approach countering a sin. They're SUPPOSED to do massive damage in a chain style. Interrupt their chain and they're worthless. They're SUPPOSED to jump in on a straggling enemy and beat them senseless in 5 seconds. Position yourself near your team or be ready to defend against the sin. They're SUPPOSED to have deadly killing power in 4-5 skills. Use pre-prot. Concerted damage on a sin will drop him very quickly. Assassins keep PvP accountable to itself, for they do not allow room for sloppiness. It's sad ANet has caved to people not understanding that.