Curse

Kaon · Nov 19, 2007, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

I don't think games going to VoD had much to do with LoD. If you look at HA most games don't last very long and that's 8v8, the real issue is the builds that are getting played in GvG take the NPC's into consideration.

The NPC's haven't changes much over the years, they need to be brought up to modern standards, not just dumb archers who's predictable use of Troll can be D-shotted. I would like to see different NPC's on each map, stick in some other professions than just warriors and archers. Mix it up a bit so we get some variation at VoD and different problems to solve on each map when ganking.

Games going to vod had everything to do with bad players.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 19, 2007, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Basically yes. I'm not calling for any specific buffs, I'm simply speaking of the way things are. I'm not even sure if there is anything that could be buffed to deal with cripshot and water snares because, quite simply, both of those revolve heavily around bypassing defense. It's harder to shut down those defenders now as well.

In order for splits to perform without a monk, they need ways to deal with the current split defenses. Currently, the only practical way is with the strong healing, condition removal, and hex control capacity you can only really get from a monk or WoR rit.

With better selfheals you could opt for a more offensive runner, say an e/rt fire or water ele.

Interrupts deal with cripshot/water hexes and the like.

erk · Nov 20, 2007, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Games going to vod had everything to do with bad players.

I guess the top 100 guilds in obs are full of bad players then.

Ego · Nov 20, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Sadly yes they are.

Riotgear · Nov 20, 2007, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

That too would greatly reduce the professions that could split efficiently mid-game.

Basically yes, the NPCs need to be relevant, but they need to be killable. NPCs need to die easily, because it's already difficult enough to kill them once support arrives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

In theory, every objective in GvG is simple. It doesn't require any particular skill to move a flag to a flagstand, or even to kill a guild lord. Put any player on a GvG map with a decent template, and they'll probably be able to do it.

The challenge in GvG is dealing with the opposing players, and stopping them from completing the relatively simple objectives. If the objectives themselves were the challenge, it would be PvE and not PvP.

The same applies to AB/FA. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Games going to vod had everything to do with bad players.

No.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

With better selfheals you could opt for a more offensive runner, say an e/rt fire or water ele.

People won't pull defense off of their flagger if it's going to be too big of a liability. The same mentality was said of Blockway: Sure you don't have to run 20 layers of block, but if you can without sacrificing much (lolparagons), why not?

Giving people better self-heals is not going to make people shift to a runner if it means their base is going to get rolled.

Quote:

Interrupts deal with cripshot/water hexes and the like.

The only interrupt that deals with cripshot is d-shot. Even if they can be dealt with, they create a very strong threat of not bailing out in time to avoid getting ganked unless your pet monk arrives.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 20, 2007, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

People won't pull defense off of their flagger if it's going to be too big of a liability. The same mentality was said of Blockway: Sure you don't have to run 20 layers of block, but if you can without sacrificing much (lolparagons), why not?

Giving people better self-heals is not going to make people shift to a runner if it means their base is going to get rolled.

This is only true because of sins.

wuzzman · Nov 22, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23

sins have been nerfed. More teams are bringing monk flaggers. the logic of half the post in this thread fails.

Sk8tborderx · Nov 22, 2007, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

sins have been nerfed. More teams are bringing monk flaggers. the logic of half the post in this thread fails.

LoD also got nerfed which is why more teams are running a 3 monk backline.

Terminal · Nov 22, 2007, 07:15 AM // 07:15

As far as the statement about GvGs going to VoD in the past goes (depending on how far back you look), the lack of player skill definitely played part, but bad PvPing was still less to blame than game mechanics which allowed it (not saying it was a bad tactic to play to VoD still).

Turtling with 10 to go was a completely viable and effective strategy and it was criminal to not adopt it if you were in a spot as far as DP went and just happened to have meteor shower on a bar to boot. To find yourself in that situation can be called lack of "skill", but to not take advantage of a mechanic which you could take advantage of to come back in the game from half your team at 30% DP and the other one grabbing morale boosts was always foolish.

Can't beleive Kaon and Squidget are still around.

And on guru of all places. ;p

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 22, 2007, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

sins have been nerfed. More teams are bringing monk flaggers. the logic of half the post in this thread fails.

You're an idiot, sins are still viable (and equally threatening as before) just the bar they runhas changed.

And monk runners really arent that much more prevalent then before, just after LoD got nerfed everyone ran a monk runner briefly, most people switched back to rit.

Kaon · Nov 22, 2007, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

I guess the top 100 guilds in obs are full of bad players then.

Exactly.

Although i must add that if 2 really good guilds face each other (and those can literally be counted on 1 hand) the game as a good chance to go to vod too. But this has ALWAYS been the case in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terminal

Can't beleive Kaon and Squidget are still around.

And on guru of all places. ;p

Yes i am, without ever taking a break :P. Yet i have no idea who you are, probably from TGH?

Guru sucks, but tgh is dead

Div · Nov 22, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

sins have been nerfed. More teams are bringing monk flaggers. the logic of half the post in this thread fails.

Um no. Last time I checked, black mantis combo was still pretty instagib.

ensoriki · Nov 22, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Meh, Instagib wasn't nerfed, it was changed to be even freaking longer I guess >.>
Instead of Bls-dual

there doing bms,jungle strike-Dual

>.>From what I can see there doing even more damage and loose 1 more slot on there bar >.>

You know you can chop off a cockroach's head? And it will fight to survive before dying?
The assassin's head was not cut off and thus it does not have to fight to survive, it just had to change the food it eats because it is no longer a viable source =P

wuzzman · Nov 22, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

A gvg skirmish build that dies to an SP sin is usually fail...

JR · Nov 23, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

A gvg skirmish build that dies to an SP sin is usually fail...

Any SP sin that tries to take on another skirmish character is terrible at Guild Wars. That's not what sins are there to do.

Bankai · Nov 23, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

You know you can chop off a cockroach's head? And it will fight to survive before dying?
The assassin's head was not cut off and thus it does not have to fight to survive, it just had to change the food it eats because it is no longer a viable source =P

What...the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO...

If you didn't grasp it yet, Assassin is not a person.