Curse

Derelict Daily · Nov 16, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

I'm beginning to see more teams run a super offensive pressure build, with some shutdown capability. These are interesting and fun teams to watch right now (don't think I would have the guts to run anything like this myself).

One build I enjoyed was 2 W/Me, 2 paras, and a cripshot.

The warriors were axers who carried FGJ and spammed Fear Me. The mesmer skill they each bring is Power Spike.

One paragon spammed Anthem of Fury to keep the adren flowing. The other was Anthem of Guidance with another copy of Power Spike.

The monk bars were pretty standard. They ran an RC Prot and a Mo/E WoH hybrid guy who did GOLE-Heal Party. The runner was a Mo/E WoH variety who also did GOLE-Heal Party. I can honestly say that except for Watch Yourself, there was not one iota of defense in the entire build. Not even Aegis. Of course, they gotta be gud and shutdown the right stuff before they roll you with huge pressure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Natural healing is a possibility on a split warrior imo. Spec into wind prayers rather than tactics and go. (it still relatively blows)

Harrier's Haste goes well with that build as well.

Riotgear · Nov 16, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

stuff

You're basically affirming what I said. I'm not saying buffing them will fix it, I'm just detailing why they've fallen by the wayside. Split defense has grown in power (snares), and the healing capacity of a monk built for split has greatly increased (ZB, WoH) which makes shitty self-heals much less relevant even as a method to just take pressure off the monk.

Of course, self-HEALS aren't the only thing that has gone nowhere, self-defense (Mending Touch/NS aside) has not really gone anywhere, and what's left doesn't really deal with Cripshot or water snares anyway.

Zuranthium · Nov 16, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derelict Daily

I'm beginning to see more teams run a super offensive pressure build, with some shutdown capability. These are interesting and fun teams to watch right now (don't think I would have the guts to run anything like this myself).

One build I enjoyed was 2 W/Me, 2 paras, and a cripshot.

The warriors were axers who carried FGJ and spammed Fear Me. The mesmer skill they each bring is Power Spike.

One paragon spammed Anthem of Fury to keep the adren flowing. The other was Anthem of Guidance with another copy of Power Spike.

That build is not very interesting at all (you forgot to mention Enduring Harmony on one of the Paras, btw). It's just another form of fairly brainless pressure that has become more viable, as predicted. If you get a suitable map and the brainless pressure build doesn't have good movement (that particular one doesn't, but easily could if they realized a single important skill that should be slotted in), the game can be won by map control. Mostly, though, it comes down to a gank race. Not too exciting for the game.

~Z

Derelict Daily · Nov 16, 2007, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

That build is not very interesting at all (you forgot to mention Enduring Harmony on one of the Paras, btw). It's just another form of fairly brainless pressure that has become more viable, as predicted. If you get a suitable map and the brainless pressure build doesn't have good movement (that particular one doesn't, but easily could if they realized a single important skill that should be slotted in), the game can be won by map control. Mostly, though, it comes down to a gank race. Not too exciting for the game.

~Z

IMO, more fun to watch and play than blockway with squishies camping in wards for 16 minutes

Greedy Gus · Nov 16, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derelict Daily

I'm beginning to see more teams run a super offensive pressure build, with some shutdown capability. These are interesting and fun teams to watch right now (don't think I would have the guts to run anything like this myself).

One build I enjoyed was 2 W/Me, 2 paras, and a cripshot.

The warriors were axers who carried FGJ and spammed Fear Me. The mesmer skill they each bring is Power Spike.

One paragon spammed Anthem of Fury to keep the adren flowing. The other was Anthem of Guidance with another copy of Power Spike.

The monk bars were pretty standard. They ran an RC Prot and a Mo/E WoH hybrid guy who did GOLE-Heal Party. The runner was a Mo/E WoH variety who also did GOLE-Heal Party. I can honestly say that except for Watch Yourself, there was not one iota of defense in the entire build. Not even Aegis. Of course, they gotta be gud and shutdown the right stuff before they roll you with huge pressure.

Sounds like what BC is running, except they have soldier's defense on almost everyone. It's way stronger than it should be, because soldier's defense still has a broken uptime:downtime, especially when the conditional is unremovable and not stoppable.

Alex the Great · Nov 16, 2007, 10:08 PM // 22:08

lol, sure self heals are in disaray, but my buddies and i like to have fun on a split w/d with vital boon+ Sig of pious light

so sweet at 8 earth

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 16, 2007, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Of course, self-HEALS aren't the only thing that has gone nowhere, self-defense (Mending Touch/NS aside) has not really gone anywhere, and what's left doesn't really deal with Cripshot or water snares anyway.

There are more pure self-defense skills seeing play now than at any other time in Guild Wars. Dark Escape, Return, Natural Stride, Mending Touch, Disciplined Stance...

Where do you think self-defense should be going that it hasn't already?

TheOneMephisto · Nov 16, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

There are more pure self-defense skills seeing play now than at any other time in Guild Wars. Dark Escape, Return, Natural Stride, Mending Touch, Disciplined Stance...

Where do you think self-defense should be going that it hasn't already?

I think that he meant non-monk self-defense skills. Because really, besides monks and rangers, no other class ever uses those skills.

Riotgear · Nov 17, 2007, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

I think that he meant non-monk self-defense skills. Because really, besides monks and rangers, no other class ever uses those skills.

Basically yes. I'm not calling for any specific buffs, I'm simply speaking of the way things are. I'm not even sure if there is anything that could be buffed to deal with cripshot and water snares because, quite simply, both of those revolve heavily around bypassing defense. It's harder to shut down those defenders now as well.

In order for splits to perform without a monk, they need ways to deal with the current split defenses. Currently, the only practical way is with the strong healing, condition removal, and hex control capacity you can only really get from a monk or WoR rit.

Captain Arne Is PRO · Nov 17, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

saw alot of matches ending before VoD
like it alot, but of course more damage/less heal isn't automatically more fun.

More damage... less healing...

Deja vu?

Zuranthium · Nov 17, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derelict Daily

IMO, more fun to watch and play than blockway with squishies camping in wards for 16 minutes

Sure, but we had left the worst part of blockway meta before the LoD nerf.

~Z

Yue · Nov 18, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Too bad most people were too dumb to realize you could roll blockway if you ran something other than blockway.

erk · Nov 18, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Am I the only one who actually loves the fact that deaths in PvP (well, GvG in mind here) occur more often?

I'm not sure yet how often is the best, but ever since LoD was removed watching Obs mode has been much much more entertaining that before. Waiting for VoD to see deaths happen was incredibly dull.

Have not played any GvG yet since that update cause I'm too busy and stressed with IRL. Will try soon.

I don't think games going to VoD had much to do with LoD. If you look at HA most games don't last very long and that's 8v8, the real issue is the builds that are getting played in GvG take the NPC's into consideration.

The NPC's haven't changes much over the years, they need to be brought up to modern standards, not just dumb archers who's predictable use of Troll can be D-shotted. I would like to see different NPC's on each map, stick in some other professions than just warriors and archers. Mix it up a bit so we get some variation at VoD and different problems to solve on each map when ganking.

Riotgear · Nov 19, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

The NPC's haven't changes much over the years, they need to be brought up to modern standards, not just dumb archers who's predictable use of Troll can be D-shotted. I would like to see different NPC's on each map, stick in some other professions than just warriors and archers. Mix it up a bit so we get some variation at VoD and different problems to solve on each map when ganking.

I don't see the NPC stupidity while at base as a huge problem. Adding more diverse defense on them means even more specialized builds are required to take them down effectively, if they put Whirling Defense on them, for example, the list of things that could even think about killing them in a timely manner would shrink down really far.

erk · Nov 19, 2007, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I don't see the NPC stupidity while at base as a huge problem. Adding more diverse defense on them means even more specialized builds are required to take them down effectively, if they put Whirling Defense on them, for example, the list of things that could even think about killing them in a timely manner would shrink down really far.

I was sort of thinking more along the lines of using say Dervish and Paragon NPC's on the Isle of Solitude, Assassins and Ritualists on Imperial, Jade etc.

Bankai · Nov 19, 2007, 08:10 AM // 08:10

That too would greatly reduce the professions that could split efficiently mid-game.

Luminarus · Nov 19, 2007, 09:40 AM // 09:40

I dont do much gvg because my guild isnt really into it, but talking about the ideas of NPC's I just had an idea of maybe having several set templates for classes, and each side got to choose where to set them out (in set possible positions). That way the NPC's they face are a variable to be contended with, as well as the fact that their choices can make a unique contribution to the outcome of the battle.

Also improve the skill bars of the NPC's. Give the archers maybe a preperation, or something to increase their damage output, so that ganks become a more difficult approach.

Just a couple of ideas, please dont flame as I said im not extremely experienced in GVG.

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 19, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

In an era where it's already extremely difficult to split into the opposing base without a supporting monk/rit, I don't know why you'd want to buff the NPCs.

Luminarus · Nov 19, 2007, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Mainly because I find them to be rather simple to kill from when I last GVG'd (Which admittedly was about 6 months ago). I used a sin to kill em, and also do random spikes around the field, and it wasnt that hard. However it wasnt really high end, and the meta has probs changed since then.

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 19, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13

In theory, every objective in GvG is simple. It doesn't require any particular skill to move a flag to a flagstand, or even to kill a guild lord. Put any player on a GvG map with a decent template, and they'll probably be able to do it.

The challenge in GvG is dealing with the opposing players, and stopping them from completing the relatively simple objectives. If the objectives themselves were the challenge, it would be PvE and not PvP.