Curse

Servant of Kali · Nov 15, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Am I the only one who actually loves the fact that deaths in PvP (well, GvG in mind here) occur more often?

I'm not sure yet how often is the best, but ever since LoD was removed watching Obs mode has been much much more entertaining that before. Waiting for VoD to see deaths happen was incredibly dull.

Have not played any GvG yet since that update cause I'm too busy and stressed with IRL. Will try soon.

Pyro maniac · Nov 15, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

saw alot of matches ending before VoD
like it alot, but of course more damage/less heal isn't automatically more fun.

LifesRestorer · Nov 15, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

i like it. makes obsing fun again instead of having to wait 18 mins till something happens

Kaon · Nov 15, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Eventhough I havent really played that many games after lodnerf, i haven't really noticed a big difference.

Before the nerf we RARELY had a game taking longer than 10minutes, and almost always won at 4, 6, or 8 minute mark. So the game already had plenty deaths i must say.

ensoriki · Nov 15, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Hmm, I have little experience on LoD but I will say this anyways,

LoD was powered anyways was it not? Didn't LoD kill the entire idea of Self-Heals/defense?

Aren't people dying because they still hope the monk can do Everything for them, and they cannot try at all to prolong there lifetime.

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 15, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Hmm, I have little experience on LoD but I will say this anyways,

LoD was powered anyways was it not? Didn't LoD kill the entire idea of Self-Heals/defense?

Aren't people dying because they still hope the monk can do Everything for them, and they cannot try at all to prolong there lifetime.

Self-heals and self defense were killed by the fact that every self-heal and self-defense skill is a flaming pile of shit compared to other skills. There are a few exceptions (Natural Stride and Mending Touch), but for the most part splits rely on a monk because that's the only way to stay alive.

ensoriki · Nov 15, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Self-heals and self defense were killed by the fact that every self-heal and self-defense skill is a flaming pile of shit compared to other skills. There are a few exceptions (Natural Stride and Mending Touch), but for the most part splits rely on a monk because that's the only way to stay alive.

Thank you, Like I said I have little experience on the LoD subject.
However this promotes, Spiking because people decide taking a self heal is not worth it, and thus they just boost there power up leading to the instagibs we see/have seen like SP/SoJ sins.

Div · Nov 16, 2007, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Not really, when I was guesting I played a 22 minute VoD match vs rawr, and there were only about 5 total deaths on both sides before VoD. Defensive teams still manage to make the game less dynamic. Once people adjust to the fact they can't keep their party up without party-heals, things will slow down again.

Riotgear · Nov 16, 2007, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Self-heals and self defense were killed by the fact that every self-heal and self-defense skill is a flaming pile of shit compared to other skills.

More like monks got better options for pushing red bars up on a split, split defense became beefier, and self-heals went nowhere.

wuzzman · Nov 16, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

self heals has been shit since Prophecies. Why is that new?

Captain Robo · Nov 16, 2007, 06:53 AM // 06:53

The best "self heals" in the game are Troll Unguent and Healing Signet.

Oh wait.

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 16, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

More like monks got better options for pushing red bars up on a split, split defense became beefier, and self-heals went nowhere.

All true.

However, one important thing to understand is that while the self-heals could use some buffs, buffing them is not going to restore more dynamic split play where offensive characters can freely split into the enemy base without a monk. Even a reasonably good Heal Sig isn't going to save you from being snared and killed in the enemy base.

There were two major changes to the game that forced solo splits and more dynamic warrior play out of the meta. The introduction of powerful snare templates (SoR water eles, followed by the Cripshot buff), and the neutering of Gale that made it so much harder to kill a healer in a skirmish environment.

Previously, you could split off as a solo warrior because you couldn't easily be killed. Mending Touch could clear the Pin Downs from archers and the snares that most teams ran. To actually kill you in their base, teams needed to pull strong offensive templates off the stand, combined with at least one copy of Gale to hold you in place. Doing this meant losing position at the stand, and in many cases it still didn't guarantee the kill on the warrior. Then we got SoR water runners and Cripshots that could snare the warrior indefinitely while a single offensive character finished him off.

The lack of Gale as a snare forced every team to run one of these templates, as well as making it considerably harder to kill a dedicated healer in skirmish. You can't reasonably engage a skirmish team with a dedicated healer and expect to win, unless you have a dedicated healer yourself.

In short, the weakness of self-heals, and the skirmish strength of Word of Healing, isn't the central reason for the change in splitting strategy. Buffing self heals and nerfing monk/rit skills isn't going to make teams run splits without healing support.

wuzzman · Nov 16, 2007, 08:13 AM // 08:13

o god no gale buff's. Every Warrior and there Ele mother will be taking a gale....2 W/E with range knock down plus a Ele interupting any attempts at an infuse or a rez? The only way to buff gale to make it an alternative to just running 1 snare (freezing gust you really don't need any other snare, maybe a frozen burst if you feel leet) and getting the same result for less energy + no exhaustion - the knock down, but I'm sure I can spam freezing gust alot easier then gale. Increasing the KD duration would make it a non-elite backbreaker...

lordelg · Nov 16, 2007, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Increasing the KD duration would make it a non-elite backbreaker...

Just at 10e and exaustion.... ohshi-

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 16, 2007, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

o god no gale buff's. Every Warrior and there Ele mother will be taking a gale....2 W/E with range knock down plus a Ele interupting any attempts at an infuse or a rez? The only way to buff gale to make it an alternative to just running 1 snare (freezing gust you really don't need any other snare, maybe a frozen burst if you feel leet) and getting the same result for less energy + no exhaustion - the knock down, but I'm sure I can spam freezing gust alot easier then gale. Increasing the KD duration would make it a non-elite backbreaker...

You're an idiot, warriors already get a 3s kd from gale due to stonefist gauntlets and every ele already takes gale.

twicky_kid · Nov 16, 2007, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

You're an idiot, warriors already get a 3s kd from gale due to stonefist gauntlets and every ele already takes gale.

Besides that wars haven't used gales since season 1 because it cost too much energy.

kosh · Nov 16, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Besides that wars haven't used gales since season 1 because it cost too much energy.

oh i used to love my gale warrior...

to the subjcet. im on the point that there were enough deaths already with the introduction of NF skills and izzy keep buffing physical damage. the lod nerf force a shift in the meta' but with izzy nerfing it into oblivion and not buffing any self heal ( ffs cut down the casting on heal sig...) it seems that teams still miss a wide party healer. also izzy mentioned he wants to deal the the 3 monks /rit backline, atm nothing changed about that fact,pushing lod out of the game just force you to keep 3 monks backline mostly.

wuzzman · Nov 16, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

The only way to make Heal Sig good is to make it a 1 sec cost and or halve the recharge, because no one with a brain will allow you to you use a 2 sec sig when then can easily Savage/Distract it. Then there is Troll Urgent. Same problem with heal sig and even worse, it's regen that last literally ends on its recharge. Its crap. All ways have been. The only way to buff it is to increase its duration or cut the activation time to 1 sec. The fact was the good old Prophercies meta could get away with it because splitting was never a big game ending strategy unless you 4/4 split in which case you had a monk behind you. Old teams could get away with sending a warrior or a ranger for a gank if it meant that the critical Eprod/HP is away from the stand. Its a lot different now, you not getting away with 2 sec/3 sec cast times, and Healing Breeze, thats right we used f'ing healing breeze to protect ourselves and the sad part was it worked. Players don't send stand specific characters to defend a split anymore, anyone going back to stop you from ganking has at least 1 interupt, probably a snare, KD, speed boost, an elite heal skill(SoR, WoH, ZB, WoR), and some pressure(BA or Crip or maybe just a MindBlast if people still use them). If they don't got any of that then, sure heal sig, troll urgent, and various other forms of healing would defiantly work. If you look at the options you have restfulbreeze + mend touch has your best self heals together, again that won't help you much against a KD or a Snare. So you could make self heals ridiculously powerful but it will take only about 2 weeks before people scream about how ridiculously lame it is.

Byron · Nov 16, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

The only way to make Heal Sig good is to make it a 1 sec cost and or halve the recharge, because no one with a brain will allow you to you use a 2 sec sig when then can easily Savage/Distract it. Then there is Troll Urgent. Same problem with heal sig and even worse, it's regen that last literally ends on its recharge. Its crap. All ways have been.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Self-heals and self defense were killed by the fact that every self-heal and self-defense skill is a flaming pile of shit

Natural healing is a possibility on a split warrior imo. Spec into wind prayers rather than tactics and go. (it still relatively blows)

jaeharys targaryen · Nov 16, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

o god no gale buff's. Every Warrior and there Ele mother will be taking a gale....2 W/E with range knock down plus a Ele interupting any attempts at an infuse or a rez? The only way to buff gale to make it an alternative to just running 1 snare (freezing gust you really don't need any other snare, maybe a frozen burst if you feel leet) and getting the same result for less energy + no exhaustion - the knock down, but I'm sure I can spam freezing gust alot easier then gale. Increasing the KD duration would make it a non-elite backbreaker...

another beautiful post, wuzz. wars will never run gale again, eles already do, and i'm hoping you meant disable infusing. interrupting infuse with gale is impossible unless you anticipate the infuse.