Curse

Seamus Finn · Aug 16, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I actively encourage all opposing Rangers to drop the elites that have made them threatening and replace them with an elite that makes them great at running away.

I can agree with the theory behind this, but dropping burning for screaming doesn't look like a huge loss, and now a typical balanced build would probably have to split a mesmer on top of a water ele and some damage if they were to try and kill the ranger(which, keeping this in mind is probably a bad idea). Obviously, this character doesn't replace a crip shot in any way, but he seems pretty viable in lieu of the Burning Arrow Ranger(or at least more viable than he should be). I mean, maybe this ranger has less "threat" than I am putting on him, but I just dislike the bar and don't know why it should look attractive at all.

Thomas.knbk · Aug 16, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Did you miss the part where I talked about how WoH should be changed so that it can act as both a standard heal AND Infuse on a Monk's bar?

~Z

So, basically a 5 energy 1/4 sec cast heal that heals for 300+?
Nice, but not nice enough. I'd still have to drop LoD for it, which is just not going to happen. No matter how efficient you make spot heals, they're never going to be as efficient as partywide heals. And you're not going to survive without.

Byron · Aug 16, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

It's certainly very strong, which speaks to changes that need to happen to make other options viable. I think Divine Healing should become a Heal Party ability, for example.

I'd agree. The buff to deny hexes was very nice a few moths ago. I would like to see more straight heals out of divine favor, and a party-wide heal would be very nice. Even just a good reduction on the recharge of divine healing would be interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

I can agree with the theory behind this, but dropping burning for screaming doesn't look like a huge loss, and now a typical balanced build would probably have to split a mesmer on top of a water ele and some damage if they were to try and kill the ranger(which, keeping this in mind is probably a bad idea).

I'm 99% sure Ensign is joking. Escape is only marginally better than natural stride, imo.

Zuranthium · Aug 16, 2007, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

So, basically a 5 energy 1/4 sec cast heal that heals for 300+?
Nice, but not nice enough. I'd still have to drop LoD for it, which is just not going to happen. No matter how efficient you make spot heals, they're never going to be as efficient as partywide heals. And you're not going to survive without.

You drop LoD for it but you open up another slot on your skillbar as well. And, again, there should be more party-wide healing abilities in the game. You'd most likely put Divine Healing (and I speak of my version) on that WoH bar, for example. WoH and Divine Healing instead of LoD and Infuse. The player and the team then decides which fits them best.

---------------

What's interesting about Escape is that it makes you stronger in the Ranger vs. Ranger matchups that happen a lot. You block more so you have the advantage in terms of who is going to be able to get their Unguent and M-touches off more often. I think it's fine and I'd like to see some Ranger builds that are able to move away from Wilderness Survival altogether with a spec of 14 Expertise, 12 Marksmanship, 6 Healing Prayers. Make Healing Touch better to replace Unguent and move Mending Touch to Healing. It works.

~Z

moriz · Aug 16, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21

well, considering that healing touch depends almost entirely on high divine favour for it's power, and the fact that rangers don't have divine favour..... you get the idea.

Seamus Finn · Aug 16, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

I'm 99% sure Ensign is joking. Escape is only marginally better than natural stride, imo.

Ensign was saying in his usual way that the bar I was speaking of is terrible. I believe I read that correctly. Escape is better than nat stride by quite a margin(no way to remove it other than the wild blows -- unlike the hex/enchant clause in nat stride -- , a higher block percentage -- not huge but noteworthy --, and most imoprtantly 75% coverage vs. 50% coverage -- basically if you die with that ranger bar you are beyond help) . The question is if Screaming shot is that much worse than Burning Arrow, since that is the template it looks to replace(if we are talking about the viability of escape). In my experience, what makes a ranger dangerous(particularly at the stand) is really apply and the 2 interrupts. Crip shot adds another dimension to the bar, but burning just adds damage.

And for Z:
Ranger vs. Ranger fights are generally ridiculous. Any advantage you get from escape means nothing because unless the other ranger is very dumb, he will get away quite easily. The immunity from hexes means a ranger a hang out in the enemy base untila mesmer is sent back. Without diversion(or a stance crusher like a melandru derv with wild I suppose), damage with take forever to do anything to the escape ranger and water snares may slow him down, but he has 75% coverage on his block stance. And I don't find anything "interesting" about the bar.

Zuranthium · Aug 16, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

well, considering that healing touch depends almost entirely on high divine favour for it's power, and the fact that rangers don't have divine favour..... you get the idea.

*sigh*

That's why it needs to be CHANGED. Should be healing for 40 + (Attribute Rank * 5), tied entirely to the Healing attribute.

~Z

Seamus Finn · Aug 17, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

*sigh*

That's why it needs to be CHANGED. Should be healing for 40 + (Attribute Rank * 5), tied entirely to the Healing attribute.

~Z

You mean so when any class wants a big self heal they just take heal touch? Wasn't the point of the divine favor bonus to keep it a monk skill?

Ensign · Aug 17, 2007, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

What's interesting about Escape is that it makes you stronger in the Ranger vs. Ranger matchups that happen a lot.

I do agree that Escape is stronger in a straight up Ranger duel. However straight up Ranger duels are not relevant in any type of Guild Wars, so I don't see why that matters at all. If two Rangers are ever sitting out in the middle of nowhere shooting each other, it's because they're being bad and felt like having a duel instead of trying to win a match.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

The question is if Screaming shot is that much worse than Burning Arrow

Yes. Yes it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

In my experience, what makes a ranger dangerous(particularly at the stand) is really apply and the 2 interrupts.

You're absolutely right about that; if you wanted to make a Ranger who excels at the stand you run Broad Head Arrow for the extra disruptive dimension. But people don't bring stand Rangers, they bring Rangers for all of the tactical mischief you can get into away from the stand. Escape doesn't help you with that at all, while taking a skill off your bar that frequently excels in many of those situations. Yes, you're harder to kill, but you aren't anywhere near as threatening as a Ranger with a good elite, and you don't win games by splitting off non-threatening characters.

Zuranthium · Aug 17, 2007, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

You mean so when any class wants a big self heal they just take heal touch? Wasn't the point of the divine favor bonus to keep it a monk skill?

That would certainly be their reward for speccing into Healing Prayers, should they so desire. But, really, show me a character that would want to do such a thing (other than a R/Mo) or a case where it would be overpowered. I seriously do not think there are any such scenarios.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I do agree that Escape is stronger in a straight up Ranger duel. However straight up Ranger duels are not relevant in any type of Guild Wars, so I don't see why that matters at all. If two Rangers are ever sitting out in the middle of nowhere shooting each other, it's because they're being bad and felt like having a duel instead of trying to win a match.

LOL, it's not about Ranger vs. Ranger ...it's the fact that an Escape Ranger is going to be more durable in a split situation vs. the regular Burning Arrow. For certain team builds, maybe it has a place. Especially if things are changed such that good Ranger templates can be made WITHOUT dipping into Wilderness Survival.

Also, though, I disagree that it's entirely irrelevant (the Ranger vs. Ranger duel) because Flagrunner + Ranger vs. Flagrunner + Ranger bouts happen a lot and the match I watched yesterday where one guild ran Escape on their Ranger featured him having to confront the other team's BA Ranger...the BA Ranger ended up having to push back to his team.

~Z

Relambrien · Aug 17, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

New updates:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skill update

Skill Updates
Assassin

* Dark Apostasy: reduced casting time to .25 seconds.
* Fox Fangs: reduced activation time to .5 seconds.
* Golden Fox Strike: reduced recharge time to 4 seconds.
* Iron Palm: reduced Energy cost to 5.
* Jagged Strike: increased Bleed duration to 5..20 seconds.
* Jungle Strike: reduced activation time to .5 seconds.
* Locust's Fury: reduced recharge time to 10 seconds.
* Palm Strike: reduced Energy cost to 5.
* Unsuspecting Strike: reduced recharge time to 2 seconds.
* Way of Perfection: increased duration to 60 seconds; decreased casting time to .25 seconds.
* Way of the Empty Palm: reduced recharge time to 10 seconds.
* Wild Strike: this Skill is now unblockable

Ritualist

* Ancestors' Rage: decreased casting time to .25 seconds; removed Exhaustion; functionality changed to: "For 1 second, nothing happens. When this Enchantment ends, all foes adjacent to target ally are struck for 30..130 lightning damage."
* Anguish: reverted skill to its original behavior.
* Defiant Was Xinrae: reverted skill to its original behavior.
* Disenchantment: reverted skill to its original behavior.
* Dissonance: reverted skill to its original behavior.
* Spirit Burn: functionality changed to: "Target foe is struck for 5..50 lightning damage. If any Spirits are within earshot, Spirit Burn causes Burning for 1..3 second(s)."
* Wanderlust: reverted skill to its original behavior.
* Wielder's Strike: increased recharge time to 6 seconds; decreased unconditional damage to 5..50; decreased conditional damage to 10..40; removed exhaustion.
* Xinrae's Weapon: reverted skill to its original behavior.

Sorry for organization; copy-paste made it like that.

So they buffed Assassin lead attacks and revamped the Rit changes. All I can say is this: Ancestor's Rage change is very clever. I like it. Since it's an enchantment, it can't stack for spiking purposes, but it's still very viable as a pressure skill. Other changes to rit skills should also keep rit spike at bay while making them fairly viable.

erk · Aug 17, 2007, 03:03 AM // 03:03

It looks like they have just reversed all the Ritualist Exhaustion nerfs from last week. Good move it was a silly mechanic on that class. Now lets siee if they can think of another way to reduce Rit spike that's not so knee jerk.

twicky_kid · Aug 17, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Escape gives the ranger better survival vs NPCs + other splits. Less down time healing = more time killing.

BA can dish out the dmg but in the end it cannot stay up as long as escape does. Survival usually trumps dmg on a flag runner. We'll see how it plays out.

Riotgear · Aug 17, 2007, 03:26 AM // 03:26

AR no longer simultaneously castable, nice solution. Palm Strike's looking much better, but no one gives a shit because Black Lotus Strike still pays you 8e for using it and isn't elite.

twicky_kid · Aug 17, 2007, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

AR no longer simultaneously castable, nice solution.

Looks like dervish fodder to me.

street peddler · Aug 17, 2007, 03:50 AM // 03:50

i saw the enchantment ancestors rage thing suggested on wiki just after the exhaustion nerf..i guess they liked the idea.

Zuranthium · Aug 17, 2007, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

* Disenchantment: reverted skill to its original behavior.
* Dissonance: reverted skill to its original behavior.

That's really too bad...they were more playable in their new forms. 25 energy for a spirit is...GAH. Hopefully sometime in the future they will decide to take the plunge and make spirits balanced and playable.

I thought Ancestor's was fine too...I'm really against Rits having any Enchantment spells so the new change is frustrating and it just plays right into the hands of Dervish too much.

Wild Strike....tasty. I don't think a GREAT build can really be made with it yet, however, my R/A Temple Strike build for Random Arenas thanks you.

Jagged Strike...geh, nobody really cares about longer Bleed. Do you honestly expect an Assassin to run around the entire GvG battlefield stabbing everyone to spread the condition??? A shorter bleed duration along with +damage or faster attack speed is what's needed.

The Unsuspecting Strike buff wasn't what the skill needed either. People can't spam a 10 energy attack all day long. Needs to be unblockable with the standard 4 second recharge.

Jungle Strike and Fox Fangs now attack fast...cool...(doesn't really matter in the case of Fox Fangs, never going to get used instead of Wild Strike...and Jungle Strike takes too long to recharge) but not LEAPING MANTIS STING? Oy.

HEY, they listened to the smart suggestions for Spirit Burn and Way of the Empty Palm, though!

Iron Palm is a little dangerous...could be too good for Warriors at 5 energy. Would rather have seen unconditional knockdown and Falling Spider at 1 second recharge and activation...would make for some very interesting Assassin builds.

Palm Strike...meh. We've been saying forever that it needed to be 5 energy to simply not SUCK. Now it needs to be made Elite-worthy.

~Z

Sab · Aug 17, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

I think they forgot to fix Deadly Paradox again. =/

Riotgear · Aug 17, 2007, 06:05 AM // 06:05

They forgot to fix Deadly Paradox, and Black Lotus Strike, and make Expose only work as the only Assassin hex, and fix Melandru.... at least MOST of the broken crap has been purged out with reasonable solutions now.

Quote:

That's really too bad...they were more playable in their new forms. 25 energy for a spirit is...GAH.

Apparently it's better to satisfy terrible players that can't figure out how to tolerate exhaustion with max energy lower than 70 than it is to make dropping a powerful turret spirit useful for anything other than spirit forest ridiculousness.

It didn't belong on Wielder's or Spirit Burn though. IMO they should leave the changes as is, but re-implement the exhaustion on power-spirits, possibly even throw it on Recuperation (which would be MORE playable at 10+exhaust instead of 25)

kvndoom · Aug 17, 2007, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

I agree, and honestly, I don't think the exhaustion will stick (my totally uninformed opinion, mind you). I think it is just a forced deterrent to drive people away from these skills for the test period. Hopefully these skills will be adjusted properly at the end of the test period. Overpowered builds are addictive and people will not let go until forced to do so.

"Yay! Anet got rid of teh evil exhaustion, now I can go back to farming in PVP! I wish these PVP enemies would drop gold and ectos..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

I think they forgot to fix Deadly Paradox again. =/

Yeah, I noticed that too. Assassins are a hard class to balance; they always tread the line between being too powerful (insta-kill) and almost useless (warrior lite). Deadly Paradox needs a 30 second recharge.