Curse

neoflame · Aug 10, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Add a Wearying Strike recharge nerf onto that and I'll probably buy GW2.

Neo-LD · Aug 10, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Dervish
Rending Touch: increased recharge time to 8 seconds.

Necromancer
Reckless Haste: increased Energy cost to 15; increased duration to 6..12 seconds; increased recharge time to 12 seconds.

Ritualist
Wielder's Strike: reduced recharge time to 5 seconds.
Ancestors’ Rage: reduced Energy cost to 5.

Very nice.

Quote:

Warrior
Desperation/Drunken Blow: these Skills now only knock you down if they hit.

Uh, did these things seriously just get buffed? A small change but still...

Relambrien · Aug 10, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

I like the quick response. Rending has been balanced pretty nicely, though it's still a bit on the powerful side (that's fine though, imo). The Reckless change will make it easier to keep off what with the decrease in spammability, so that should help too.

Rit changes don't have much of an impact since the skills affected cause exhaustion anyway (I think, correct me if I'm wrong).

The Desp/Drunken Blow changes will hit the SS build at least some, so we'll see how that plays out.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Uh, did these things seriously just get buffed? A small change but still...

No; steady stance would activate even if the attacks missed, giving the adren and energy and therefore making Fear Me just as spammable whether you hit or not. Now it won't do that, so the less you hit, the less you can spam Fear Me.

Riotgear · Aug 10, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Warrior
Desperation/Drunken Blow: these Skills now only knock you down if they hit.

Yay. Now just slap Melandru with the nerfbat and we'll be set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Neo-LD
Uh, did these things seriously just get buffed? A small change but still...

They got buffed if you're not running Steady Stance.

Skuld · Aug 10, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

no, they got nerfed - you dont get the adrenaline from steady stance if you use desp/drunken while blinded now, meaning less fearme

also, do moriz's blight change

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

blessed light: reduce energy to 5. keep the 5s recharge. change functionality to: remove 1 hex, 1 condition, and heal for x. if you remove a hex, you lose 5 energy.

LuckyGiant · Aug 10, 2007, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Very nice.
Uh, did these things seriously just get buffed? A small change but still...

Nah it means they can't still e-deny while blind. Since even if you missed an attack you were still kded and hence SS kicked in.
Still not much of a change at all though, I believe its "fear me" that needs a adren increase to balance them.

lacasner · Aug 10, 2007, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Desperation/Drunken Blow: these Skills now only knock you down if they hit.

/Highfive very nice.

kvndoom · Aug 10, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyGiant

Nah it means they can't still e-deny while blind. Since even if you missed an attack you were still kded and hence SS kicked in.
Still not much of a change at all though, I believe its "fear me" that needs a adren increase to balance them.

I think there will be enough blocking and blinding to keep this in check now.

Um Yeah · Aug 10, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Overall a very nice update, especially with that quick fix a little while ago. I still think that BLS's energy gain is way too big though.

frojack · Aug 11, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Glyph of Elemental power is somewhat scary. Blurred and Gale, on a Mind Blaster is very nice indeed ^_^. Rodgort's is kinda crazy at the moment though...

About exhaustion on rit spells: It's not the handling of it thats the problem (even when you drop to around 20 while carrying shit), it's that most of the skills that carry it aren't worth it. Fast Cast Gale? Duh... Gale is one of the best skills in the game, even now. Mind Shock is fantastic. Shock serves it's purpose for the 3 second knock (especially since a war has 2 energy lines to play with).

You honestly think Wielders or the crappy Ancestors' can actually compare to these? Please...
I thought Xinrae's might actually be worth it on a stretch, but the mes effect just isn't good enough for exhaustion and the elite slot. A 15 second disable is paltry compared to a choice placed Diversion.
Solid teams rarely have more than 1 copy of an offensive spell, so you have a skill that's good against gimmicky crap (whoopie friggin' do) but is actually mediocre (or crap) against a balanced team.

The reason I wanted this skill to see play was to take the edge off of things like anti-melee hexes, MoR spam, B Surge etc.. It wouldn't shut those spells down, just be a heavy deterrent, and/or allow some breathing room where there otherwise wouldn't have been (Parasitic). Something like that on 15 | 0.25 | 12-15 2..6 d would have been reasonable and allowed for a different kind of support (throw in Guided Weapon for example).

For exhaustion? Hell I want Diversion class friggin' shut down on something ridiculous like 20-30 seconds (throw in a 5e cost, and some rock music when I cast to). Then it would actually be worth it, but then you've just created a somewhat passive thing that might as well be Spell Breaker to anyone who's got a brain...

Simple truth is, it's not 'waaaah! I don'ts like de gray bar!!!!11'. It's 'where are the skills that are worth it?'. None of these cut the mustard.

So like I said, all Izzy and co have achieved is removing 2 skills from and already barren landscape when they could have introduced something more useful than 'omg leet damage'....

phoenixtech · Aug 11, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57

I must say, ANET has been doing a very good job with these last few updates. First the HOH map changes (which still needs some work but I'm sure they are working on it), then now the skill balances. Only thing that I didn't like is what seems to be an over-nerfing of ritspike.

Skye Marin · Aug 11, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

I like exhaustion on the spirits with the reduced costs, but I'm not a fan of it on the damage spells. I'd prefer the use of a different type of limited resource on a number of them.

Ancestor's Rage could steal X% of spirit energy of the spirit nearest the target ally and convert it to lightning damage, something manageable for one Rit, but not a team. Wielder's strike, on the other hand, could do it's additional damage to a nearby foe instead of the target foe. There is no need for Exhaustion on these skills, really.

Giving Xinrae's Weapon a meaningful sacrifice (40..20%) would be awesome instead of exhaustion. Give it a shorter duration, if you need to, but make it potent.

Encourage powerful skills, but with mechanics that don't get better with more copies on team bars.

Ka Tet · Aug 11, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

woohoo, good work
now remove heros, reduce the range of spirits, fix the newly buffed rods and fgj and we just may have ourselves a game =]

moriz · Aug 11, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

you're not supposed to be able to use those skills in rapid succession. like i said before, the rit before the update can put party defense, melee buff, healing, and spike damage all on the same bar with a bit of room to spare. in other words: overpowered. so now, rits can still do the same, but will have to choose their spikes carefully. sounds pretty fair to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuld

also, do moriz's blight change

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz
blessed light: reduce energy to 5. keep the 5s recharge. change functionality to: remove 1 hex, 1 condition, and heal for x. if you remove a hex, you lose 5 energy.

for those who wants to know my reasoning behind my suggestion:

BL is a bar compression skill. no question about it. essentially, it is three skills in one: heal, condition removal, and hex removal. it will never (and let me emphasis it a bit more: NEVER) be able to compare to divert hexes, because they are used for different purposes. divert is pure hex removal, while blessed light is (currently) a mediocre bar compression skill. you can buff the recharge all you like, but unless the energy cost go down, no one will ever run it.

as another example, consider the current BL template:

div=12+2, heal=9+1, prot=9+1, sha=3
divine spirit
blessed light {e}
reversal of fortune
gift of health
dismiss condition
spirit bond
deny hexes
dark escape/return

as you can see, it's impossible to use blessed light as a bar compression skill because of its restrictively high energy cost. it will never replace any skill on that bar by itself because it simply costs too much energy. in fact, i can make a better bar by taking it out:

divine spirit
mending touch
reversal of fortune
gift of health
mend condition
spirit bond
deny hexes
dark escape/return

aside from the obvious removal of a potential hex removal, this bar is better in almost every way than the previous. it has lower energy cost, a kickass self condition removal/self heal, and does not hinder the build's effectiveness without the elite. when the build template runs better without the elite than with it, you know something is wrong. in other words, no matter how much you buff BL's recharge, it will never be used because the build becomes worse with it.

so what will happen if BL is changed to what i suggested?

div=12+1+1 pro=12+1 sha=3
divine spirit/signet of devotion
mending touch/guardian
reversal of fortune
blessed light {e}
spirit bond
deny hexes
return
dark escape

with BL changed to what i suggested, it can truly become the bar compression skill that it's meant to be. here, it completely replaces gift of health and dismiss condition, because it finally can be used as such. this opens room for additional utility skills like guardian, mending touch, return, etc. this is just an example, but i think you all know what i mean.

currently, there's a lack of adaptable, soloable monk for split-heavy builds, blessed light seems to be made for such situations.

if you don't believe BL is meant to be a bar compression skill, then ask yourself: what the hell is it meant for then? even if you set the recharge to 0, and make it a .25 sec cast, it will still not come close to divert hexes. they are different skills, with different purposes. it's time for BL to be made properly.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Aug 11, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Hard for me to imagine a BL monk without Signet of Devo.

Really good update to me. Didn't seem like a lot of buffs, but they were effective.

twicky_kid · Aug 11, 2007, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond

Except not, because adrenaline gain increase is capped at +100%.

This is completely false. I suggest you do some testing first. I made a paragon with 300% adren gain just to hammer bash some one over and over. Pretty fun really.

Riotgear · Aug 11, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

This is completely false. I suggest you do some testing first. I made a paragon with 300% adren gain just to hammer bash some one over and over. Pretty fun really.

Just tested, Heat + FGJ still takes 3 hits to charge Fierce Blow.

I still think it has potential for abuse. :P

Mysterial · Aug 11, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

It's sort of half true - skills that say "you gain x% more adrenaline" are capped at 100%. It even doesn't care about individual skill bonuses over it, which is why Focused Anger is broken.

However, that cap stacks with skills that give direct adrenaline gain. So for example if you have Enraging Charge and "For Great Justice" and hit someone with Mark of Fury on them, you will charge every adrenaline skill on your bar instantly because all the direct gains will get multiplied by FGJ. So I question how useful that cap really is when you can easily charge skills in one strike without hitting it if you wanted to.

Riotgear · Aug 11, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

So I question how useful that cap really is when you can easily charge skills in one strike without hitting it if you wanted to.

If Fear Me becomes possible to charge in one hit, I'd imagine it's going to be pretty damn useful.

Div · Aug 11, 2007, 05:58 AM // 05:58

I really liked moriz's idea about blessed light.

Adrenaline gain abuse seems to worry me, and wearying strike remains unanswered.

Otherwise, great skill updates. Keep them coming!