Curse

Lodurr · Aug 10, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killa-beez

GG monks. no more protective spirit or bond or SoA or anything that can keep a monk alive.
what the hell is the point of buffing guardian when it can be taken out so easily
biggest BS ever.

I don't see Rending Touch as a threat in every build. It could be imba in hump builds, being used as a mini-Grenth in melee trains. In a regular balanced spike build it doesn't help much because the time it takes to Rend the enchant off (.75 to cast and .75 aftercast) is way too valuable and the warrior/derv is better off trying to hit another spike skill than worrying about the prot spirit/guardian/whatever.

I agree it was fine when it was 10r.

Sword · Aug 10, 2007, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

OK... but Drain Enchantment has double the cast time.

Well, for comparison in the finals of the last AT, Aegis (15 energy, 2 second cast) was interrupted 10% if the time - one of the top 5 most interrupted skills. Diversion was also interrupted about 10% of the time - a 3 second cast.

Lets not forget fast casting. Even if you're interrupted as much as Aegis or Diversion was in the AT finals (who are obviously the best interrupters about), then you're still netting over 20% more energy at 12 Inspiration.

Oh, and you also have the advantage of removing enchantments more frequently.

And under MoR this thing becomes an energy monster.

Seriously, this skill has not been nerfed.

I think your sort of missing the point of drain here. Although you have some nice stats the real use of drain is an enchant removal on a spike. While it does and always has - been a source of energy managament for a dom mesmer, the real reason people use drain is for very well timed enchant removals.
Those that think are concerned about e management are not thinking about the fact that mesmers have the best energy management in the game. If people were truly concerned about a mesmers energy they would bring other mesmer skills besides drain.
Before this nerf(yes, I consider this a nerf - and solely for the reason I am about to describe) drain was a 1 second cast , with fast casting this becomes a very rapid cast. Drain on spikes in conjuction with shatter or some other form of enchant removal is one of the most affective aspects of a "balanced" spike build to remove preprots such as sod,ps,sb etc. Having a much slower casting drain will make finishing off a target that has remained alive after a spike and is at low health much harder, as the monks will have alot more time to counter the dps after the bulk of the spike has been sustained, as they can cast mutiple 1/4 second prot skills without them being ripped nearly instantly by a fast cast 1 second drain.

Derelict Daily · Aug 10, 2007, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melon

4v4? Who plays 4v4? I think Anet got them shields mixed up, it's SHIELD OF DEFELCTION you should look at, notn Regeneration.

Who needs SoD anymore when we've got Guardian! Now that elite slot can be filled by RC or possibly Blessed Light!

The High Lord · Aug 10, 2007, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Some feedback. (Things that I immediately noticed)

Assassin: Good, since you don't really need to run Shadow Prison anymore. (although I don't agree overall with the shadowstep mechanic.) Expose defenses really needed to be toned down.

Mesmer: Good to see that the longlasting shutdown hexes got toned down a bit.

Necromancer: Same as the mesmer, and good to see that the condition skills might finally become useful.

Elementalist: Good to see that some glyph skills will become viable again.

Monk: Aegis nerf was to be expected. But like I already posted in the other thread: Guardian will be largely ignored until it has a faster casting speed. (So in my opinion revert the current changes and just make it 0.25 cast time) This would fit in the "skill > random casting" frame. Some elites/skills also will be ignored until something has been done about energy management. The inspiration nerf of a couple of months ago was really too hard. Blessed light for example is still way too expensive, and doesn't seem like a good choice because of the energy cost regardless if you remove a hex or not. There are also a few skills that simply are too "brainless" like LoD.

Warrior: Still has some useless skills.

Ranger: Finally some other alternative to natural stride! The spirit buff will also help alot in build diversity.

Dervish: Rending touch seems a bit.. too much.

Ritualist: The channeling nerf was to be expected.

Paragon: Not much to say.

There are still alot of useless/mindless skills. I refer to my post here.

The VoD changes seem interesting, will need to try it out. I'll try to post a more detailed feedback on some skills after having tried playing with them some time.

street peddler · Aug 10, 2007, 08:11 AM // 08:11

at least give us a way to DEAL with the exhaustion, cause as it stands now, every skill with exhaustion slapped on it is going to be completely shunned from the game.

Sinful Doom · Aug 10, 2007, 08:46 AM // 08:46

After watching an hour's worth of HvH obs mode tonight it would appear its still the same old SP assassin teleport around the map crap that has been haunting my dreams at night. And as someone stated earlier I dont feel the duration of SP's hex is what makes it so deadly its the recharge that needed a nerf.

Apok Omen · Aug 10, 2007, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by street peddler

at least give us a way to DEAL with the exhaustion, cause as it stands now, every skill with exhaustion slapped on it is going to be completely shunned from the game.

Glyph of Energy now has a 10 second recharge. Maybe use that and finally have some decent e-management?

Basically, before the nerf, Rits could happilly spam spirits, weapon spells, and heals. Now, they have to THINK before casting something. Rit spike is still playable, it's just that you have to cope with what Eles had since the beginning of GW.

Love the update, but as said, Rend Touch is imba atm. Many people tried a Rodgort's Invocation Spike, but e-management and thumpers stopped them. Seems to have been predicted for a pressure skill, which it is.

FGJ! is seriously broken, tried the skill with D-Slash warrior, just D-slash over and over again with frequent Severs-Gashes-Sun and Moon Slashs. All you need is a smiter and blam! ownage.

Monk skills actually take skill to play, and Remove Hex buff was very appreciated. Not overpowered seeing as how Veil can be put on a player before hand, Deny can remove more than one based on recharging DF skills, and Smite does damage.

Necros... finally, no more "press and afk" modes for hexing.

Mesmers... seems fair, but I have a feeling Anet is telling us something we don't know about IW...

Ranger: the bow attacks might actually see play... might

Sin: Cool

Dervish... see above posters...

Paras... I thought Izzy actually WANTED Aggressive Refrain to give -10 Al while attacking...

All in all, pretty good, but a little word of advice: There are reasons why skills that have potential but are locked by long recharges and what not are not supposed to be buffed just to see play... it's cause they become too gimmicky...

Surena · Aug 10, 2007, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Where are:

- Changes to the mechanics of "Avatar of Melandru" + wearing strike
- Reworking Steady Stance with a higher recharge or energy cost
- Nerfing RaO
- Rending touch

moving FGJ now to strength and letting it scale?

BlackSephir · Aug 10, 2007, 09:32 AM // 09:32

If we're already on "we are" then...
Where's fixing Deadly Paradox?

fripple · Aug 10, 2007, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Rit spike is still playable, it's just that you have to cope with what Eles had since the beginning of GW.

Mesmers... seems fair, but I have a feeling Anet is telling us something we don't know about IW...

Ritualists do not have 30-60 spare energy points at the top that they can afford to spend on exhaustion, so please do not play stupid by pretending elementalists are under the same management pressure as any other class when it comes to pool restrictions. Especially when the comparison is with the one class that already carries its own, rather severe restriction skills in the form of ashes. Let us just call a spade a spade and admit that Anet wanted to permanently remove all of those skills from the game and work from there, because obviously that is going to be the net result, not some pollyannish notion that people will start playing these cerebral, cautious lightning nukers when other options are available.

As for mesmers, perhaps they realized that IW builds were a bit more vulnerable than necessary with the long recharge on IW itself. It's not like it's seen much play since the game was just Prophecies, and even then it was pretty gimmicky.

Riotgear · Aug 10, 2007, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Shock axe runs exhaustion on an even smaller pool. Me/E with Gale didn't used to be terribly uncommon either. Quit whining.

Quote:

Let us just call a spade a spade and admit that Anet wanted to permanently remove all of those skills from the game and work from there

In the case of Wielder's Strike and Ancestor's Rage.... pretty much, yeah.

Disenchantment, Wanderlust and Dissonance were all staples in spirit spam builds that really needed to die. Having more than one of those three is exponentially worse than having one, making exhaustion quite appropriate.

Knight O Cydonia · Aug 10, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Echo and Arcane Echo received another decrease to their recharge time to make them a possibility for dynamic new builds.

i don't normally post, but this made me chuckle. I mean how many mesmers actually use arcane echo / echo? It really should read "dynamic new ele builds".

gogo echoed backfire!

Dzan · Aug 10, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight O Cydonia

i don't normally post, but this made me chuckle. I mean how many mesmers actually use arcane echo / echo? It really should read "dynamic new ele builds".

gogo echoed backfire!

Plus, why would someone use Echo when Glyph of Renewal is usable now?

Draco Angelus · Aug 10, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

what's all this about fixing Deadly Paradox, I'm assuming I'm missing why it needs balancing.

Edit- Also, New Hyper Echo Mending ftw!

Keithark · Aug 10, 2007, 10:54 AM // 10:54

I think this is by far the best "balance" I have seen. I only disagree with 2 skills and one is not a big deal, but the other I would like to see changed back or even buffed from the original...Aegis, maybe PvP chains it but PvE doesn't so why kill one to save the other? I mean it doesn't kill my build or anything but it will make me think twice about pugging, because that skill really helps when you have pugs that like to over-extend...and yes they should just not do it and LTP and all that but you know what I don't want to teach them so just another reason for hero/henchway instead of pugging' Not a terrible update like we have seen in the past but /signed for introducing a closed deck in PvP so skills like aegis don't get hit

Mitchel · Aug 10, 2007, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draco Angelus

what's all this about fixing Deadly Paradox, I'm assuming I'm missing why it needs balancing.

Edit- Also, New Hyper Echo Mending ftw!

Deadly Paradox + Dancing Daggers + Augury of Death

moriz · Aug 10, 2007, 12:15 PM // 12:15

the way to deal with exhaustion for rits? same as every other class: don't spam them mindlessly. basically, don't shit spirits everywhere you go, and don't blast the channeling skills at every target you see.

oh yeah, before i forget:

blessed light: reduce energy to 5. keep the 5s recharge. change functionality to: remove 1 hex, 1 condition, and heal for x. if you remove a hex, you lose 5 energy.

lacasner · Aug 10, 2007, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Dancing daggers needed a nerf imo, and maybe so did siphon speed. A 5 second recharge snare for 5 energy maybe needs a slight tone down.

Also, now that I think about it I'd just give expose defenses a 40 second recharge, die u stupid hex!

Frantic-Sheep · Aug 10, 2007, 01:30 PM // 13:30

I think you can clearly see who plays Rit ;p

Awesome update.. might even go play GW again ;o sometime... Eventhough Izzy likes steady stance.. a lot of people dont. Cant see why they didnt touch it (or drunken blow). Same for Melandru's.. Other than that it seems like a very nice update!

(And you just cant satisfy every single GW playing soul.. )

Patrick Smit · Aug 10, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchel

Deadly Paradox + Dancing Daggers + Augury of Death

Thats the same as dying frome stone daggers, actually stone daggers are superior to DD, as the recharge is way better, the superiority of the A/ spiker comes from a bunch of other spells as well. But all are require quite an energy investment.