Curse

Killa-beez · Aug 10, 2007, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Rending Touch: decreased recharge time to 5 seconds

GG monks. no more protective spirit or bond or SoA or anything that can keep a monk alive.
what the hell is the point of buffing guardian when it can be taken out so easily
biggest BS ever.

Quote:

Escape: decreased recharge time to 12 seconds; decreased duration to 1..8 seconds; increased move speed boost to 33%.

we have this, is called natural stride :S

everything else is good.
but as a monk. rend touch basically takes me out of the game

kvndoom · Aug 10, 2007, 12:38 AM // 00:38

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Originally Posted by timebandit

I want to see Ritualists in pvp for gods sake (an NO, I am not talking about spikes here).

Interestingly, I play 3 different Rit bars in PVP, all rather successfully, and not one skill on those 3 bars got nerfed. Forcing people to be diverse and creative and not just copy the FOTM off Wiki isn't necessarily a bad thing. Plenty of good Rit builds can be made around the remaining untouched skills.

MelechRic · Aug 10, 2007, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

Interestingly, I play 3 different Rit bars in PVP, all rather successfully, and not one skill on those 3 bars got nerfed. Forcing people to be diverse and creative and not just copy the FOTM off Wiki isn't necessarily a bad thing. Plenty of good Rit builds can be made around the remaining untouched skills.

I play a few rit builds that also escaped the nerf bat. However, I question the wisdom of adding exhaustion to class without a way to cope with the effects. I think there were smarter changes that could have been made without resorting to something that really should only be used in the elementalist class.

Zuranthium · Aug 10, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Exhaustion on the Rit skills was a bad idea. There are MUCH better ways they could have fixed them.

I was quite surprised to see the Golden Phoenix Strike and Guardian buffs.

~Z

kvndoom · Aug 10, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

I play a few rit builds that also escaped the nerf bat. However, I question the wisdom of adding exhaustion to class without a way to cope with the effects. I think there were smarter changes that could have been made without resorting to something that really should only be used in the elementalist class.

I agree, and honestly, I don' think the exhaustion will stick (my totally uninformed opinion, mind you). I think it is just a forced deterrent to drive people away from these skills for the test period. Hopefully these skills will be adjusted properly at the end of the test period. Overpowered builds are addictive and people will not let go until forced to do so. This may help some re-discover the Rit and find new creative uses for it. Even if the exhaustion stays, there are many uses out there for Rits. Healing, damage, utility... it might be weakened some, but definitely not dead.

Div · Aug 10, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

While the rit may not be able to cope with exhaustion due to their much smaller energy pool, it almost feels as if this is Anet's only way of fixing it without completely destroying the rit's PvE game. Any nerfs to damage will weaken the rit, even if they continue lowering recharge to increase DPS because eventually energy issues will catch up to them. However, putting exhaustion on long casting spirits and ritspike skills that one normally don't bring more than one of in PvE will make it so energy is much more manageable if the user does not spam that skill but instead uses it in conjunction with other non-exhaustion skills. Eles have a large energy pool to be able to handle more skills of exhaustion in one bar (to a certain extent), and maximum energy doesn't equate to e-management. A good rit should be able to still manage their exhaustion even if they use an exhaustion-causing skill.

Curse You · Aug 10, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Personally, I think I know what spirit is going to be fun to use on Ritualists. [wiki]Equinox[/wiki]!! Try spirit spamming with double exhaustion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSlayer

Other than that, I love the changes. Don't see how the change to Plague touch does much since it still removes 1 condition...

It's actually a buff, it's just a little hard to tell.

gasmaskman · Aug 10, 2007, 01:30 AM // 01:30

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nerf...Divert Hexes

No.

It's fine.

LuckyGiant · Aug 10, 2007, 01:32 AM // 01:32

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Originally Posted by Dervish

Rending Touch: decreased recharge time to 5 seconds

Rending touch is now on crack. Don't stand a chance of protting against a fear me warrior, it was fine when it was 10.

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Originally Posted by Assassin

Expose Defenses: increased recharge time to 25 seconds

Ok, cheap skill gets what it deserves.

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Originally Posted by Elementalist

Blinding Surge: decreased Blindness duration to 2..8 seconds

Meh, lost 1 second. Doesnt mean much with the avg warrior with reduce blind rune/shield.

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Originally Posted by Monk

Guardian: increased duration to 2..7 seconds; increased block rate to 50%.

Remove Hex: decreased casting time to 1 second; increased recharge time to 8 seconds.

Err thats a very powerful buff for guardian there for any monk with decent protting skills.

Remove hex...ok, so now it has a 4 sec fast recharge than veil and smite and deny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necromancer

Reckless Haste: decreased Energy cost to 10; decreased casting time to 1 second; decreased recharge time to 10 seconds; decreased duration to 4..10 seconds; increased miss chance to 50%

Nice change, same with blurred vision. Spirit of failure and price of failure energy to 15, would prefer it to be adjusted like the above. 30 sec is too long.

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Originally Posted by Ranger

Punishing Shot: decreased recharge time to 5 seconds

Interesting change (3 sec off recharge), but it still doesnt compare to non elite savage! so is not going to see the light of day.

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Originally Posted by Ritualist

Pommeled

I think it got hit a bit hard, but I hated to style of play it promoted so good job, hope it dies a painful death

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Originally Posted by Warrior

Savage Slash: decreased Energy cost to 5

Was so inferior before since it couldnt be used on recharge at 10e. Don't see myslef using it, I get frustrated enough waiting for dblow to recharge

On the warrior note, can't believe the fear me warrior didnt take a hit. Huge dmg, AoE, conditions, e denial, with party wide buffs (watch yourself etc) Seems like they're yelling hit me to me.

Lord Natural · Aug 10, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Good update on the whole, but I think Melandru's should get a small nerf, considering the hex and aegis nerf.

I'm happy to see the rit die (I hope), but I don't agree with the buffs to sin teleports. Shadow Prison duration isn't an issue, it's the recharge. Whether it lasts 3 seconds or 6 is irrelevant, since a boosted sin spike only lasts 3 seconds or so. The teleportation mechanic on a whole is just trash and ultimately detracts from the strategic element of offense.

edit: Forgot rend touch. Horrible update there.

twicky_kid · Aug 10, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

for great justice + enduring harmony = permanent 100% adren gain

This is going to be so broken with hammer bash and fear me. Forget SS. When I can get a fear me with every 2 hits you won't need SS.

Drain enchant is really a nerf. Its still a max of 10e gain but now its easily interrupted and cannot assist in removing prot during spikes. GG Anet.

street peddler · Aug 10, 2007, 02:08 AM // 02:08

the exhaustion for rits is just rediculous...they only have 30 energy to begin with..

nmemoric · Aug 10, 2007, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

* Shadow Prison: decreased duration to 1..10 seconds.

omg, that's so stupid!
this is the worst fake-nerf ever!
it's like saying: hey everybody we finally confess that we made a mistake with that skill and now it is nerfed and by no means overpowered anymore...

serious - as if that would change anything to that skill.
this skill is used to instant-kill your target in 1v1 or let's better say HB (if you're to stupid to achieve this on your one, simply add some AoE-Skills of an Fire-ele, and that's it) so it totally doesn't matter if this hex last for more than 5 seconds or one year....
if there's no hex-remove coming it's as good as over

BlackSephir · Aug 10, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

I play Assa and I don't mind these changes so much.
However, I still don't understand why A's Wild attack has to be inferior to other Wild attacks -,-
Wastrel's Collapse and Seeping Wound untouched- yeah, we don't want these skills to become useful now, do we?

Lafayette · Aug 10, 2007, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Pretty good update.

Adding in exhaustion seems to be a bit heavyhanded on the nerf-stick, particularly for some of those skills which hardly saw any use anyhow.

Particularly good changes for Crude Swing and Vital Weapon, as well as the plenty already mentioned.

I'll have to echo comments about Rodgort's though. It was very decent without the buff. Recharge may turn out to be too low.

Hyper Cutter · Aug 10, 2007, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmemoric

omg, that's so stupid!
this is the worst fake-nerf ever!
it's like saying: hey everybody we finally confess that we made a mistake with that skill and now it is nerfed and by no means overpowered anymore...

serious - as if that would change anything to that skill.
this skill is used to instant-kill your target in 1v1 or let's better say HB (if you're to stupid to achieve this on your one, simply add some AoE-Skills of an Fire-ele, and that's it) so it totally doesn't matter if this hex last for more than 5 seconds or one year....
if there's no hex-remove coming it's as good as over

And just what do you want them to do with it? I swear, some people in this thread won't be happy until they start removing classes from the game entirely...

neoflame · Aug 10, 2007, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Well, quite frankly, yeah. I can't really see how shadowstepping is good for the game at all.

FoxBat · Aug 10, 2007, 02:57 AM // 02:57

I know no-one cares about HB, but I can't help but wonder if the spirit exhaustion changes were to hit olias spammers.

Melody Cross · Aug 10, 2007, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Preliminary thoughts on monking with the new balances:

Aegis: no complaints here. Placement will be more important than it used to be. Monks can't just RUN away from their team, throw aegis and think they're doing an okay job. Monks who complain too loudly should look at the 10 energy cost of the skill first and remember how hard it was to keep 15 energy in reserve when pressure started to get tight. Aegis chain is far from dead; it just requires better placement awareness to get it off effectively.

Guardian: good again. its a solid alternative to SoA and Shielding Hands now. Spammable in small groups, Guardian lets you keep it on more than one target; good extra prot to catch people outside earshot now that Aegis has reduced range.

Remove Hex 5/1/8. Only took 2 years

I like using this right now, but I miss my Veil when a Diversion drops on my head. As good as Deny, but veil is just...its better for messing with hex builds imo and your hex removal (the ONLY hex removal on your bar) should be as good at messing with hex teams as possible

For spot removal, the improved RHex is a solid skill.

Blessed Light: The buff makes it attractive. A buff to its heal would make it a powerful elite again (elites SHOULD be powerful). I still think a 10/.75/4 with heal buff is a fair compromise. In its current form, you can cast BLight whenever you need it...you just can't afford to so why bring it?

Judge's Intervention: meh. With the GWEN skills, smiters now have 2 enchants worth bringing and a condi removal. they still need an elite and a smite style prot spirit. Retribution=remove the maintained enchantment junk; make it 10/.25/8 with a short uptime. Buff Balthazar's Pendulum with a small damage AoE hit and make Defender's Zeal an enchantment with a shorter uptime. With Smite Hex, that might make a good support build. Nowhere near a backline build, but a hybrid midline supporter would look possible.

Until there is a good elite in smiting prayers--until it has skills that are capable of working in this fast paced setting Anet is gearing every other form of damage to play in--you won't see smite monks in serious PvP. One is not enough; the attribute needs to be reworked. Keep up the good work for the moment, but tis still a long road to go.

Shield of Regeneration: No big deal outside of RA, imo. Runners can still maintain it on themselves against most split teams. And RA monks can still use it, just not split it on themselves and another player. Any further nerfs to this skill should be toward its cast time...and any nerf to its cast time SHOULD be met with a buff it its cost.

I very much like the trend this shows in monking. No skills were killed this update; they were modified and can still be used to good effect if played smartly. I hope that Anet will start to feel comfortable with the skills that "always" see play and start looking toward those skills that have NEVER seen serious play.

Edit: those who make such a fuss about shadow stepping should keep in mind what used to happen when a warrior went 1v1 with an emo runner back in the original metas. Shadow stepping is an important dynamic to allow splits and keep casters and ranged attack classes from dominating a large portion of the game. It lets melee characters close to attack range with something that otherwise would have them blind, slowed and near death long before they ever got near them. Sin solo spike is easy to counter...so easy that SoR just bought a small nerf over it.

To others in this thread: if you don't like a character style, don't play it. but stop trying to nerf them out of PvP because you don't like how they work. Just like Shadow Stepping, many of the game dynamics you decry now were put in place to control older dynamics that were, at their height, unstoppable for 4 out of 5 classes 1v1, 4v4, etc. Look toward balance, not toward vengeance.

GGs

qwe4rty · Aug 10, 2007, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Looks pretty decent as a whole, but VoD a bit earlier? Only thing I'm not too sure about, but we'll see how it plays.