Curse

Age · Aug 09, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Bring back my Aegis I don't like ear shot.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Aug 09, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

You made rit spike spells cause exhaustion and proceeded to buff Glyph of Energy. Good job...

EDIT: I know that this means they will be forced to not use offering of spirit and take ele as a secondary, but I just feel that this was a very half-assed nerf. You needed to do one or a combination of the following: decrease damage, increase recharge, increase casting time. Also, the change to vital weapon strikes me as rather stupid, you should've just increased recharge.

Wtf were you thinking buffing rending touch?
Not sure if this is buff or nerf to reckless haste...
Price of failure wasn't hit hard enough.
Could've balanced SoR much more efficiently.
Aegis balance makes absolutely no sense, I'll leave you to figure that out.
Augury of death, zergway, and many other things still need balanced.

All in all, I am very un-impressed with this "skill balance."

Snype · Aug 09, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melon

4v4? Who plays 4v4? I think Anet got them shields mixed up, it's SHIELD OF DEFELCTION you should look at, notn Regeneration.

you hurt my feelings

/cry

Shuuda · Aug 09, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

* Golden Phoenix Strike: decreased Energy cost to 5

God bless, that's all I wanted to see.

Seamus Finn · Aug 09, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Especially if there's no more Aegis to keep it in check.

Obviously it can't be tested yet, but I doubt aegis is even close to gone. Anet has removed it from the runner and made it easier to run on stand monks and midliners. Now aegis on GoLE will operate almost the same as when it was a 15 energy GoLE(with infiniate faking etc.) Having to keep positioning where your team is in earshot is an interesting change, but I don't think this has really killed aegis.

I also think that if people want to run Shadow Prison/BoS sins it is still quite possible.

Also the Rodgarts will be quite strong on a mindblaster...

Div · Aug 09, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Perfect rit changes. Nice mesmer hexes balance. Nice sin balance without killing it. For great justice might be interesting now. Nice guardian and remove hex buff (especially with new hex removal coming out soon). Nice ele changes, especially with blurred and bsurge. Rodgort's scares me now, but we'll see about that.

Great update in general. With the death of ritspike hopefully, we might see zergway and spirit-thumpway becoming more prominent. Any near future plans to answer those? (Steady stance, desperation blow, rampage as one, ranger spirits+traps) :P

I'm scared to say some necro hexes aren't hit hard enough. Price's damage didn't actually change at 14 curses, and faintheartedness is reduced by 2-3 seconds? I like the idea of reckless being more active, and we'll have to see how energy pans out for the necro.

Melandru's is still pretty god mode and either that or wearying strike needs a nerf. Blessed light could use either a heal buff or a 1/4 second cast. Rending touch might be a little too strong but we'll see about it.

--Edited out all the responses to PvE to prevent this post from being deleted when Mokone and Nurse do a PvE-noob post purging...--

Holz · Aug 09, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

I actually like most of the nerfs/buffs. Too bad, I LOVED Shield of Regeneration as I regularly monk in RA, by far the best elite . 8 Second recharge makes it almost impossible to pre-prot two allies (sometimes including yourself) for battle... But then again, I agree that the 4v4 monk bars need some diversity. Blessed Light has a better recharge, still very expensive and casting time is meh (3/4). What I'd like so bad, is a nerf to Divine Spirit. Divine Spirit with enough points in Divine Favor allows way more diversity in the elites being used... It wouldn't be 90% SoD/SoR since the 5mana discount on all spells. Couldn't you halve the recharge to 30 seconds or something? Feedback plz

.

Elrodien · Aug 09, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

I like this update, but I am very suprised that nothing was done about Steady Stance, Fear Me and Melandrus Avatar.

Please fix these!

frojack · Aug 09, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Exhaustion... I really did roll around laughing about that (whats the internet nonsense speak for that again?). Of all the changes you could have thought of, you added the most ridiculous you could find. That really is quite impressively bad.
Naturally none of these guys give a crap. They just don't want to face the severity of Rit spike ever again (and I completely agree) but let's add some sanity in the wake of the grave diggers...

I know of only 2 exhaustion skills that have ever made any sense to run on non-elementalists. The first is Gale which had a lot of value when it was amazing. The second makes rocks fall from the sky but that's a pretty piss-poor use of a mesmer.

All you've done is remove these rit skills from the game instead of changing them into something more interesting. The N/A spike build was indeed horrible, mortifying even (Ancestors Rage was so ugly with that), yet those troubled assassin skills received no change. Someone will just find another use for that highly creative but somewhat obnoxious build. At least it'll be interesting...
The Spirit Rift change is good. Needed addressing somehow anyways. The damage buff was somewhat bewildering in the first place, but here we are. Exhaustion and more persistent basic dumb DD on Wielder's and Burn? You couldn't do better than that...? Really?
Next up, let's look at other stuff you added 30 second grey-energy to...

Defiant Was Xinrae.
No one cares about this skill now. No one will care about it when the change goes in. This skill has almost zero value since it only works on yourself now as it is (much like Mirror of Ice). With exhaustion, the 30 energy maximum goes down to 20 and the power level in no way justifies exhaustion on a class that can't handle it. If I see anyone use this, I will assume that player hates their team. Could be an interesting new mechanic...

Ancestors' Rage.
Don't really care for this skill but there were other possibilities to do make that horrible N/A spike go away. This thing could be earshot range and it wouldn't be worth exhaustion. Dead skill.

Anguish.
This actually may be a good change. Still don't think it justifies exhaustion (especially living in communing) since all it does is dumb, random DD but if I refrain from touching the delete button, I'll test it out anyways.

Disenchantment & Dissonance.
Seem like a similarly good ideas until you realise that they still have 5 second creation times, can't be manually targeted, and die more or less at a glance. I can't think of a' good' skill that takes 5 seconds to use that isn't anything to do with resurrection.
These skills have the most interesting effects of all the attack bots, but 5 seconds make them a joke. As if random targeting, 25 energy, and long recharges wasn't already gimped enough...

Wanderlust.
Was never really a fan either way. I see no real value in it on it's own. It only functions in spirit-spam which I also see no value in. Call me weird if you will...

Xinrae's Weapon.
This could work. Could. I don't think the effect warrants exhaustion on a non e-storage bar. My opinion, might be slightly different if it lived in Channeling or Restoration, but I have my doubts.
Really though, how much better than Gale do you think this is on a non e-storage bar? 6 seconds for Diversion, 10 seconds for the duration of this... That's what your thinking right? It lasts it's recharge. That really didn't need to be the case did it? It's dubious at best with this change. Almost pointless against a balanced group. An almost pointless elite? Sorry, I meant 'another' almost pointless elite...

Well there it is. Rit spike did indeed suck, but remember that was your idea. These alterations almost seem like knee-jerk reaction to the very real horror of N/A rit spike. Exhaustion is a fantastic mechanic, (I have relentlessly spouted this enough myself to convince those afraid of it) but not on less than 60 energy bars as theres no room for much of the flexibility if offers. You throw it around here like it's going out of fashion. Regardless I'll pack her personal affects and get a grave-digging shovel...

Bowstring Badass · Aug 09, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Bye-Bye Expose Defenses see you someday.

Now just buff Fox's Promise.

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Aug 09, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

when is this update going to be in place..since its not up atm

Bowstring Badass · Aug 09, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh [prefession]-zorz

when is this update going to be in place..since its not up atm

In an 2 hours or less I would say.

Div · Aug 09, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Puppeteer

Do you even play a Rt and have fun?
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Exhaustion
yea - pretty harmless in PvE - no usable energy after a few spirits -_-

Yes I beat factions on my rit, and I know what exhaustion does.

Copied and pasted again for emphasis:

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

More or less, they have thought about PvE. There's a reason why they lowered recharge on spirit burn, basically keep the same DPS. Spirit rift's 2 second cast means nothing for PvE. Just easier to interrupt and see in PvP. As for the other skills causing exhaustion, there is generally such a nice break between mobs that let your energy pretty much recover to full, so it's less of an impact in a slow-moving PvE environment than you might think.

PvE spirits aren't hit hard at all. I don't recall ever packing wanderlust, disenchantment, and dissonance all on my PvE rit. At most I take one of the three, and if anything the recharge buff helps you keep it up twice in one mob battle more easily. A typical communing rit with union, shelter, displacement, pain, wanderlust won't be affected at all, and a channeling rit with some restoration won't be affected either.

I'd like to point out before the change, both disenchantment and dissonance were 25 energy spirits, and therefore most likely won't appear in a bar with shelter, shadowsong, and wanderlust. And to be frank, who uses anguish and xinrae's weapon anyways? >.>

And finally I'd like to point out skill balance is about PvP in general. PvE arguments are much weaker because of the slower-paced nature (outside of Cantha missions) and more leniency even in HM. Plus mobs never change, so you can easily adjust your build before a zone/mission.

Edit for those crying about rit PvE nerf, here are some builds I use in PvE, some of which I assume are very common and practical, both before and now:

1. Spirit spammer
shelter, union, displacement, pain, shadowsong, wanderlust, boon of creation, rez sig.

2. Channeling damage dealer
bloodsong, vampirism, spirit rift, spirit burn, essence strike, nightmare weapon, mend body and soul, flesh of my flesh.

3. Restoration rit
life, vampirism, recuperation, preservation, mend body and soul, spirit light, boon of creation, flesh of my flesh.

Bowstring Badass · Aug 09, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

What About Expose?

Relambrien · Aug 09, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

A much better update than I expected. Yes, there were better ways to fix rit spike, and there are some things that are still left untouched, but there were few things that were glaringly unaffected or buffed into ridiculousness with this change. Bsurge is one of the exceptions though; it's just a one-second decrease in duration.

About Rodgort's spike, how does it now compare to obs flame? I don't think it's glaringly better, but it does seem somewhat better if you can manage to keep up emanagement, defense, and prevent spikes from being completely disrupted.

Overall, even if better solutions to a bunch of the problems were possible, at least several problems have been solved or at least are on their way. Now we just need more frequent balances like this and a lot of the remaining problems should disappear fairly quickly. This isn't exactly what I call a stellar balance, but it's certainly better than recent ones.

Riotgear · Aug 09, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Ritspike gets kicked in the junk.
Hexes revised well.
SoR receives a yawn-worthy tap.
Shadow Prison spike sort of fixed. Maybe.
Zergway untouched.
Melandru not only unharmed, and potentially buffed with spammable enchant removal.

I rate this update 6/10. Where the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO is the Wearying Strike nerf that was discussed?

Bowstring Badass · Aug 10, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by zara

I don't think many people will mind. now all they have to do is destroy sins, paragons and dervish...

They already did 25 second recharge on expose defenses sin = useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

* Golden Phoenix Strike: decreased Energy cost to 5.
* Expose Defenses: increased recharge time to 25 seconds.
* Black Spider Strike: increased Energy cost to 10.
* Guardian: increased duration to 2..7 seconds; increased block rate to 50%.
* Remove Hex: decreased casting time to 1 second; increased recharge time to 8 seconds.
* Flourish: decreased recharge time to 8 seconds; increased Energy gained per recharging attack Skill to 2..7.
* Escape: decreased recharge time to 12 seconds; decreased duration to 1..8 seconds; increased move speed boost to 33%.
* Rending Touch: decreased recharge time to 5 seconds.
* Signet of Aggression: increased the strikes of adrenaline you gain to 2; decreased recharge time to 5 seconds.

GPS: Good job adjusting a skill to the way it was when it came out nice.

Expose: Great now sins can kill 1 target in random arenas every 30 seconds compared to other melee who can kill a target about every 15-18 seconds.

Black Spider: Ok. Saw this coming a while back should have happened with the Shadow Prison going to 10e.

Guardian: About time it got buffed.

Remove Hex: Ok now it is somewhat useful. Holy Veil > Remove Hex.

Flourish: Flourish sins coming back?

Escape: Awesome we have an elite Natural Stride.

Rending Touch: YAY. Time to abuse.

Sig of Agres: Giving Paras and Wars the ability to adren spike at the beginning of a match fun.

Riotgear · Aug 10, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyunsai

WoW, it must be the first time you're giving such a high rating...

1 point for not fixing zergway, 2 points for not fixing Wearying Strike or Imbue Health despite claims they were gonna eat it, 1 point out of spite because Izzy refuses to nerf paragons or Melandru because he likes how they look on paper even though he forgot to make them counterable. :P

Quote:

Expose: Great now sins can kill 1 target in random arenas every 30 seconds

First off, why do you ever need to use Expose more than once every 30 seconds in RA?

Second, it's 25 seconds.

Signet of Aggression's going to be interesting. I'm gonna have to cook up an RA build abusing it or something now that I can make a hammer warrior that's ready to pound face with no charge-up.

Ben-A-BoO · Aug 10, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25

You guyz gonna be kidding me right?

Exhaustion on Ritualists ???
On a base energy of 30 ???
So i need to run only Radiant as only armor option and carry a staff or wand and offhand ???

I get it that Ritualist needed a nerf for their spike but this is just ... I dont even find words for it.

Exhaustion is for Elementalists with energystorage but if i cant do sh*t after i used three offensive skills that is just bullocks.

I want to see Ritualists in pvp for gods sake (an NO, I am not talking about spikes here).

And the worst is that the audience is cheering "great they did hit 'em hard!" ... go back to tyria then and enjoy your holy monk - ele - warrior trinity ...

I am seriously pissed off ... so don't try to flame me ... rawwwrrrrr.

Thanks for your time,
Timebandit

Bowstring Badass · Aug 10, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

First off, why do you ever need to use Expose more than once every 30 seconds in RA?

Second, it's 25 seconds.

Does it matter I was rounding up to the 10s.