Curse

yum · Nov 26, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I vote we create a new class, the Missile Commando. His most obviously-useful elite is ICBM, which launches a nuclear missile into the enemy's backline, causing 50000 fire damage, and burning and deep wound for forever.

Cant happen since GW is all about swords, axes, wands, etc...

However, I vote for a Summoner class whose most useful elite is Summon Mallyx. That class is also very common in other MMOs.

Riotgear · Nov 26, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinful Doom

Riotgear, I think the word you were looking for was viable not valuable. The same can be said for assassins.

The original post said valuable, and I assure you that nuclear missiles are very valuable.

Wow, I sure derailed this thread.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 26, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Well, I think the closest thing that the assassin might be able to do without being too powerful would be more of an assist character, having a strong spike assist (2-3 skill combo), snares for warriors (siphon speed), and a variety of elites that have some promise for utility (siphon strength, shroud of silence, etc.). Basically, a cross between a utility class and a weaker melee class, something that you'd put in if you want utility along with a decent off-spike or spike support.

Skuld · Nov 26, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56

What mephisto said, plus no stupid shadowsteps.

Kaida the Heartless · Nov 26, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

I would like to see the assassin disappear...

forever.

Skuld · Nov 26, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Anyone with half a brain can realise that they won't outright delete anything major, like a class or even skills, so just stop that mentality right now please.

ensoriki · Nov 26, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Provide good utility, and damage to balance it out
Kinda like a ranger, but melee,with shadow steps and its more focused on killing than ranger utility.

Riotgear · Nov 26, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Well, I think the closest thing that the assassin might be able to do without being too powerful would be more of an assist character, having a strong spike assist (2-3 skill combo), snares for warriors (siphon speed), and a variety of elites that have some promise for utility (siphon strength, shroud of silence, etc.). Basically, a cross between a utility class and a weaker melee class, something that you'd put in if you want utility along with a decent off-spike or spike support.

I've heard desire for Assassins to be a sort of "melee mesmer", causing powerful disruptive effects on the battlefield while being confined by melee range, which I think there is definitely a legitimate place for.

Assassin killing power needs to be kept limited unless they are going to move their damage model away from idiotic spike-then-be-useless and towards a more continuous type as is typically seen with Moebius Strike.

Koda Kumi · Nov 26, 2007, 10:53 PM // 22:53

A good start would be to change skills like Black Lotus Strike and Falling Spider so they need a lead attack but have an excellent conditional benefit (energy gain when the target is hexed, poison if knocked down...). This would limit assassins more or less to 3-skill combos including a lead attack, which is more managable than the insane 4-5 skill combos you are facing now.

Div · Nov 26, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

I want to see all daggers attacks blacked out for 3 seconds once a sin uses a dual attack. Obviously moebius will still recharge stuff if the condition is met, but it prevents most of the instagib combos we see today. They will have to do something about DA sins at the same time too.

Only if both of those things happen will I agree to buffing the flexibility of other sin skills. Otherwise, it'll just lead to more degenerate builds.

Tyla · Nov 26, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I want to see all daggers attacks blacked out for 3 seconds once a sin uses a dual attack. Obviously moebius will still recharge stuff if the condition is met, but it prevents most of the instagib combos we see today. They will have to do something about DA sins at the same time too.

Only if both of those things happen will I agree to buffing the flexibility of other sin skills. Otherwise, it'll just lead to more degenerate builds.

Ten star post!
although sins will only work in the 4v4 and ab format still><

wuzzman · Nov 26, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

You don't have to delete the class. Just destroy everything that makes it worth taking over the core classes. Which is spiking ability and shadow step. People will argue "BUT LOOK ME SIN HAS A LITTLE OF EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!" when what really makes an assassin shine becomes neutered like a stray dog, but a ranger technically does everything too and guess what I'm seen more teams collapses because of a single ranger camping your backline then I did a shadow stepping sin. Your not going to convince me or anyone else for that matter, that getting into half range to do same shit a ranger can in 3 times the range is going to make the class any more valuable. Honestly you can make assassins another frontline pressure dummy, people are already complaining about thumpers and what ever spiking potential Paragons have, so do you really think that assassins are going to welcomed with open arms? Make deadly arts useful beyond the Dancing dagger spamming + KD, and what do you get? Getting shafted like necro hexes.

Legendary Shiz · Nov 27, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I want to see all daggers attacks blacked out for 3 seconds once a sin uses a dual attack. Obviously moebius will still recharge stuff if the condition is met, but it prevents most of the instagib combos we see today. They will have to do something about DA sins at the same time too.

Only if both of those things happen will I agree to buffing the flexibility of other sin skills. Otherwise, it'll just lead to more degenerate builds.

/win

12132165465465468798745467654531321679

Kaida the Heartless · Nov 27, 2007, 12:33 AM // 00:33

So, the sin becomes a warrior with crap armor then?

Gonna give them some armor?

So, the sin becomes a dervish with crap damage?

Gonna give them more damage?

So, the sin is back to instagibbing with more defense?

It's never going to end.

twicky_kid · Nov 27, 2007, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Here's a brief summary.

There are 10 classes in the game with 8v8. 2 slots will be monks + 1 runner. With 5 available slots there are bound to be obsolete classes. This is how I look at the sin. Sins need to remain obsolete for the better of the game as whole.

Once you buff the sin to a point were its picked over other classes its extremely imba and must be tuned back again being obsolete. Nerf it to oblivion and leave it dead. Anet has better things to do with their time than fix a class that can't be used unless its imba.

yum · Nov 27, 2007, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I've heard desire for Assassins to be a sort of "melee mesmer", causing powerful disruptive effects on the battlefield while being confined by melee range, which I think there is definitely a legitimate place for.

The one question ,then, will be "why assasins while teams can pick a mes or a ranger?"

Sun Fired Blank · Nov 27, 2007, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

I've heard desire for Assassins to be a sort of "melee mesmer", causing powerful disruptive effects on the battlefield while being confined by melee range, which I think there is definitely a legitimate place for.

The sin right now requires complete and sweeping changes to fulfill that role. Off the top of my head, I think you'd probably have to reduce the recharge and / or activation on almost every skill in the sin's repertoire, along with completely obliterate lead skips, perhaps revert many skills that were abused in double lead skip chains back to pre-nerf levels, get rid of the aftercast on many non-attack sin skills, generally improve lead and off-hands, and somehow do all this without deadly paradox breaking everything.

Riotgear · Nov 27, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

The one question ,then, will be "why assasins while teams can pick a mes or a ranger?"

Variation in effects. You don't ask yourself why you'd pick a Ranger over a Mesmer, do you? Both serve important utility roles. Deadly Arts and Shadow Arts have some potential to deliver some pretty harsh effects, possibly providing another utility role. Shadow Shroud is a good example that has seen use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

The sin right now requires complete and sweeping changes to fulfill that role. Off the top of my head, I think you'd probably have to reduce the recharge and / or activation on almost every skill in the sin's repertoire, along with completely obliterate lead skips, perhaps revert many skills that were abused in double lead skip chains back to pre-nerf levels, get rid of the aftercast on many non-attack sin skills, generally improve lead and off-hands, and somehow do all this without deadly paradox breaking everything.

First step is nerfing Deadly Paradox, but we knew that. I maintain my stance that Deadly Paradox should affect one skill, then end.

If what you're saying is that the class is broken and needs major work to be non-degenerate, then the only response I can really deliver is "we know."

yum · Nov 27, 2007, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Variation in effects. You don't ask yourself why you'd pick a Ranger over a Mesmer, do you? Both serve important utility roles. Deadly Arts and Shadow Arts have some potential to deliver some pretty harsh effects, possibly providing another utility role. Shadow Shroud is a good example that has seen use.

I don't try to compare ranger with mesmer, what I want to say is that if I have to pick an assasin over either of those for utilities (besides some retarded builds), he'd better be worth his salt. Shadow Shroud is good but not that good, the same goes for other skills. I doubt Anet's ability to rework the class the way you suggested, it is not simply modifying the cost and recharge of some skills, that is a gigantic work.

lacasner · Nov 27, 2007, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Moriz made really good suggestions about the class could have great utlity and use, but it is sin campfire thread i believe. Perhaps someone should make a link to this thread about it.