Curse

pah01 · Nov 26, 2007, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Hey All.

Here is what I would Like to see.

The assasin needs to be made capable of playing in the frontline at the flagstand in an 8v8 situation.

This is because I cannot stand the current types of skillbars that the class uses to gank or ruin an entire format.

At the moment the most common frontliner is the axe warrior with bulls strike. This is because its pressure and spike capability rolled into one is unrivalled.
Though at the moment hammer still sees a fair amount of play.

Even though in the current meta the axe warrior is generally favoured I would not say that a team which chooses to run a hammer and an axe over two axe's is at a disadvantage.

The reason the guild who runs a hammer warrior is in the playstyle of that guild team. It is because you want your build to have a different set of capabilities that what an axe offers. However a hammer warrior pressures well and spikes pretty strongly too.

Any warrior build that you use is generally able to spike strongly and to pressure pretty well no matter the bar *as long as you follow certain templates for each weapon* but will just play differently depending on the bar being used.

I feel that teams should be able to choose to play the sin for similar reason, Hey I want my frontline to play differently.

Before I post what some of my thoughts are I would like to see if people would like the sin to be capable in some way of playing like warrior frontliner, just being a different style of play to a sword/axe or hammer.

Joe

Kyp Jade · Nov 26, 2007, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Im sorry but you lost me when you said you wanted assassins in frontline.

First of all, comparing assassins to warriors is dumb, sins are for quick kills against the unprepared (instagib), wars are for smashing your face in ready or not.

pah01 · Nov 26, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16

I would be interested in how you justify the assasin having this role is good and healthy for the game.

Joe

Kyp Jade · Nov 26, 2007, 06:33 AM // 06:33

I could go a more in depth, but the assassins strength and most of the reason it was designed the way it was is to have HUGE mobility (so it can take advantage of SOMETHING, like bad posistining or unguarded NPC's)

tho, if you want to see how lame and gimmicky assassin frontliners are, look at some of the dancing dagger builds you see in HA. Even the A/Mo sins that gets put in the 2 sin 2 fire 1 water 3 monk builds, kinda lame frontline.

Riotgear · Nov 26, 2007, 07:09 AM // 07:09

What I'd like to see them do? Frontlining and disrupting midliners in ways other than instagibbing them. This means more disruptive utility, and cheaper, shorter, less-damaging, more-repeatable combos.

qwe4rty · Nov 26, 2007, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Problem is, most people thing that the design of the assassin is inherently flawed, so the argument that "they're meant to do that (instagib)" somewhat fails.

Riotgear · Nov 26, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

First of all, comparing assassins to warriors is dumb, sins are for quick kills against the unprepared (instagib), wars are for smashing your face in ready or not.

Warriors can not do their job whether their opponent is "ready or not", attempting to do that will get you owned by prot and midliner disruption in very short order.

Quite the opposite, they need to capitalize on unpreparedness regularly, and there isn't really anyone better at punishing an unprepared player than a warrior. This was the case even with instagib sins, because instagib sins are not really capitalizing on unpreparedness, they're mostly functioning through brute force and overload.

Assassins are a gank character, a type of character that has been bad for PvP in every RPG it has existed in. Gank characters are bad because their defining features are some combination of the ability to create completely one-sided fights at will, the ability to avoid fights not in their favor completely, the ability to easily escape unfavorable fights, and the ability to deny their opponents the ability to prepare for them.

In short, a functional gank class puts a tremendous tactical burden on everyone else at virtually no cost to themselves. They can capitalize on the mistakes of their enemies, but their enemies can not capitalize on theirs. If that is not the complete opposite of skill-based gameplay, I don't know what is.

The only way this is ever made "difficult" is by making it sporadic, which basically means that they're alternating between completely broken and completely useless, and confrontations with them are just as retarded.

Coincidentally, the result is the same: In order for the game to be healthy, the gank characters have to suck at what they do, which pisses off players of that class, and makes everyone else happy.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 26, 2007, 08:43 AM // 08:43

I'd like to see them removed from the game.

red orc · Nov 26, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

What do I like to see them do ?
Die I suppose

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 26, 2007, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I'd like to see them removed from the game.

Same.

Although I don't really understand how everyone loses to sin splits, the only problem we've ran into with sin splits was the fact that they are coupled with japlag vs guilds like spnv, hand and me.

It's pretty easy to deal with otherwise usually, though it's still a degenerate build that makes for very boring matches.

wuzzman · Nov 26, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

you might here some cute responses, "yeah I like the assassin to be able to shut down in the midline, yeah I like the assassin do X, Y, Z" but the fact is, most of these idiots, opps I mean "highly ranked, experienced, top 100" players don't want any more valuable classes in pvp, because more valuable classes will create a black hole of imbalances that will suck guild wars into another dimension of noobness the world has never seen!! sign the petition to remove assassins from the game because more people playing guild wars for its variety and ingenuity is a bad thing.

twicky_kid · Nov 26, 2007, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I'd like to see them removed from the game.

I 2nd this one.

We all know adding new classes to the game was a mistake. Most players were not keen on having new skills and classes added to the game back in prophecies. We understood that the balance and synergy between each of the existing classes back then would be shattered and never be able to returned.

Lorekeeper · Nov 26, 2007, 03:43 PM // 15:43

id like to see assassin dagger mastery skills with less emphasis on pure dmg and more emphasis on disruption and conditions on single targets.

Assassins could be a light disruption class with medium condition spreading ability..

1) So add more skill chains that interrupt or have some sort of disruptive quality about them - examples... disrupting strike, exhausting strike, temple strike but make them more useful!

2) allow them to daze for very short periods of time but at a relatively moderate rate with very little dmg.

3) allow them to make attack chains that inflict a wide range of conditions like poison, bleeding, cripple, blind and weakness... with moderate dmg but only on a single target, but able to repeat these chains moderately frequently.

4) allow them to bounce around from midline to backling or frontline to midline to get away from danger... with skills like return/deaths retreat.

5) make them suitably fragile to strong spikes and pressure

ill flesh this out when ive thought about it more

Byron · Nov 26, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

I can think of no good way to rehabilitate the class for 8v8 play. The best thing for the game would have been to nerf the shadow stepping mechanic before Nightfall was released, imho.

Riotgear · Nov 26, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

you might here some cute responses, "yeah I like the assassin to be able to shut down in the midline, yeah I like the assassin do X, Y, Z" but the fact is, most of these idiots, opps I mean "highly ranked, experienced, top 100" players don't want any more valuable classes in pvp, because more valuable classes will create a black hole of imbalances that will suck guild wars into another dimension of noobness the world has never seen!! sign the petition to remove assassins from the game because more people playing guild wars for its variety and ingenuity is a bad thing.

I vote we create a new class, the Missile Commando. His most obviously-useful elite is ICBM, which launches a nuclear missile into the enemy's backline, causing 50000 fire damage, and burning and deep wound for forever.

This is obviously a great idea. Well, maybe it isn't, but at least they would improve variety by introducing another valuable class into the game.

Kyp Jade · Nov 26, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

This is obviously a great idea. Well, maybe it isn't, but at least they would improve variety by introducing another valuable class into the game.

They did that already, it was called the dervish

Thomas.knbk · Nov 26, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I vote we create a new class, the Missile Commando. His most obviously-useful elite is ICBM, which launches a nuclear missile into the enemy's backline, causing 50000 fire damage, and burning and deep wound for forever.

This is obviously a great idea. Well, maybe it isn't, but at least they would improve variety by introducing another valuable class into the game.

It wouldn't be overpowered because prot spirit, blackout, diversion and Dshot counter it ok?

Sinful Doom · Nov 26, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I vote we create a new class, the Missile Commando. His most obviously-useful elite is ICBM, which launches a nuclear missile into the enemy's backline, causing 50000 fire damage, and burning and deep wound for forever.

This is obviously a great idea. Well, maybe it isn't, but at least they would improve variety by introducing another valuable class into the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

They did that already, it was called the dervish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

It wouldn't be overpowered because prot spirit, blackout, diversion and Dshot counter it ok?

ROFL Great stuff guys.

Riotgear, I think the word you were looking for was viable not valuable. The same can be said for assassins.