Curse

crucifix · Nov 01, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

From a monk's standpoint, i would be worried WAY more about how absolutely insane the synergy between golden fox, wild strike, shattering, impale, and [insert enchantment spell here].

Actually, this is a very good example of broken game mechanics that i deem immediatly needing to be fixed. With the "fail" instance on out of order sin attacks you can bypass a diversion by using shattering assault out of order.

so to break it down

lead attack >> diversion lands >> shattering >> diversion gone >> offhand >> shattering is already recharged.

liek wtf anet? Cool shit to exploit, but not ideal for balanced gameplay.

to stay on topic: the one big thing that the DA build has against it is the craptastic armor. when you get jumped on with a deadly arts build your are more or less toast. Now, had feigned not been fixed THEN this build would have been a massive problem.

edit: off topic: I was reading your sig. Do cats actually have the psychological mindset to become emo's? Or is that just an offspring of our subsidized pop culture of which felines cannot relate?

Sab · Nov 01, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

but tbh, after the slight nerf to dparadox, i think the build has been weakened quite a lot, and it's made it even easier to survive them now. (i play monk, and i tell you, it's rather easy to handle the situation alone if you have experience against them).

I mostly play Ranger so I can't tell the difference between a .5s and .66 s cast. =/

kvndoom · Nov 01, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

I mostly play Ranger so I can't tell the difference between a .5s and .66 s cast. =/

I think he means more on the recharge aspect, that's what really made it so retarded.

Sab · Nov 01, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

I think he means more on the recharge aspect, that's what really made it so retarded.

Yeah, I was saying that even though the recharge nerf makes a difference if you're Monking, it's still as difficult to disrupt if you're a Ranger (if they don't queue up their skills).

Pyro maniac · Nov 01, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

got more trouble as a monk with:
[skill]Destructive was Glaive[/skill] or [skill]Ride the Lightning[/skill]+[skill]Augury of Death[/skill] spikes

glountz · Nov 16, 2007, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

got more trouble as a monk with:
[skill]Destructive was Glaive[/skill] or [skill]Ride the Lightning[/skill]+[skill]Augury of Death[/skill] spikes

You shouldn't. Spirit bond would save you as soon as you see Augury landing.

Sab · Nov 16, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05

DA sins are still a problem in TA. I made a post earlier, but I'm guessing it was deleted because the post I responded to looked like something straight out of a Riverside Inn QQ-fest.

Anyways, to sum up:

- DA sins pressure like melee without being susceptible to the usual anti-melee shutdown (blind, block, hexes and kiting).

- Direct counters such as Ward of Stability, Balthazar's Pendulum and Aura of Stability are hard to fit into a standard balanced TA build. Anti-caster skills like Diversion and Backfire rely on the A/Mos being bad. Daze and Migraine rely on their monk being bad.

- Indirect counters like e-denial and interrupts aren't satisfactory. E-denial is R/P/S play and as far as I know, it's pretty weak in TA (I haven't seen any effective e-denial builds recently, except for dual Deb Shot if you count that). Interrupts aren't reliable when you can't hit half their skills on reflex due to Deadly Paradox (if they queue up their skills waiting to be D-Shotted, again that's bad play on their part).

To beat a 3x A/Mo team right now demands perfect play from all four of your players. Well, except maybe your anti-melee guy, who just sits there spamming degen because half his skills are useless. In any case, the effort you need to put into beating them far surpasses the effort they need to beat you.

I'd be happy to see this build completely gone because it's a button-mashing instagib character that actually works. GW needs less of these builds.

Shooshu · Nov 16, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Thats why they call it "DEADLY ARTS" cause they are deadly....

though something still should be done about those GAY asses A/Mo.

bungusmaximus · Nov 20, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

DA sins are still a problem in TA. I made a post earlier, but I'm guessing it was deleted because the post I responded to looked like something straight out of a Riverside Inn QQ-fest.

Pff I feel your pain all too well, on a bad day almost every team seems to have at least one of these critters in them. The only thing that works for me is pre-protting myself up the arse. As soon as the knockdowns come in it's hard to squeeze spells inbetween. And then there's healing team mates to worry about as well.

Imho sins are on their way of getting properly balanced, usually fighting them feels just about right now. If only they could tweak those A/Mo's a little bit I think Ï'm a happy man.

Turbobusa · Nov 20, 2007, 08:53 PM // 20:53

I used to own them hard using a Beguiling Haze build... doesn't work anymore since BLS was changed to a lead (hurray!).
Those sins are stupidely easy to play and you cant really miss with it.
nerf pl0x

Riotgear · Nov 21, 2007, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shooshu

Thats why they call it "DEADLY ARTS" cause they are deadly....

I agree, we need to enforce all of those other naming discrepencies as well. Decapitate, for example, does not instakill the people I use it on, which is totally unacceptable seeing as decapitation should equal instant death.

Sun Fired Blank · Nov 21, 2007, 06:33 PM // 18:33

If you didn't know, SoJ -> DD -> EA -> SotS is quarterknocking for idiots, and if you felt so inspired, you could also use Iron Palm.

Ideally, I'd like for at least one of three things to happen. The first would be for Paradox to not improve activation times. The second would be for Entangling Asp to snare (like dark prison) rather than knock down. The third would be for Paradox to have a short duration. And the fourth, which I think should just happen, is for Deadly Paradox doesn't affect enchantments, so that we can once and for all put an end to that Shadow Form griefing crap, and they can buff a lot of sin enchantments into not sucking. Edit: And another thought, they could also tie Deadly Paradox to Critical Strikes instead.

Riotgear · Nov 21, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

My suggestion for Deadly Paradox was to remove the skill disable and only affect one skill. Shadow Form reminds kind of stupid, but doing so would allow non-degenerate uses of it while utterly destroying the DA spam build.

Augury of Death needs to get hit because it's cheap fuel for all kinds of idiotic spike builds.

Lorde · Nov 22, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

All I know it with that combo I can, finally, kill as I expected to do with a sin.

I now interrupt more then when using Haze, and damage more then using daggers.

What surprise me is now I do that at the safety of range and without the worries which physical attacks have.

No worries about blind, weakness, cripple. No worries about failed combos. No worries about blocks and no worries about Empathy/Parasitic Bond. Better yet, no worries about the dreaded skill "run away from your enemy".

Before this combo I needed to have a healing skill and a speed skill, and I added a blocking enchant just to be safe and I just couldn't kill fast enough no matter how high my dagger mastery was.

If I had a melee alternative for this combo I would use but I don't. Unsuspecting strike will do 80 damage max as a opener, Blades of Steel will do 120 damage as a finisher, both are reduced by armor.

Dancing Daggers do 90 (mitigated) and Poison Signet do 100 (unmitigated). Why use melee daggers when you have this kind of unblocked ranged firepower.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 22, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorde

If I had a melee alternative for this combo I would use but I don't. Unsuspecting strike will do 80 damage max as a opener, Blades of Steel will do 120 damage as a finisher, both are reduced by armor.

Dancing Daggers do 90 (mitigated) and Poison Signet do 100 (unmitigated). Why use melee daggers when you have this kind of unblocked ranged firepower.

Dancing daggers gets destroyed by armor, and especially +10 shields destroy it's damage.

And btw, unsuspecting/BoS aren't reduced by armor because it's +damage, and that's always armor ignoring. Actually, I'm not sure if the conditional damage on unsuspecting is reduced though, as it isn't +damage but rather, additional damage.

Lorde · Nov 23, 2007, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Dancing daggers gets destroyed by armor, and especially +10 shields destroy it's damage.

And btw, unsuspecting/BoS aren't reduced by armor because it's +damage, and that's always armor ignoring. Actually, I'm not sure if the conditional damage on unsuspecting is reduced though, as it isn't +damage but rather, additional damage.

Armor will mess all of Assassin combos, specially the ones which relly on daggers.

But popping 100+ damage with Signet of Toxic Shock is something to behold.

BSSuperman · Nov 23, 2007, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Hi all - Ive found that as playing AvA often as a monk, casting Life Sheath on youself as soon as you see the Augury of Death hex come up, then hitting dismiss condition and return of fortune (cant remember the name offhand - the prot spell that cancels the next hit and heals you for x health - its symbol is like a blue circle) Ive tanked numerous augury of death spike chains (at least since last week when I started using Life Sheath) then 'return'ing (yes Im an Mo/A complaining about the A/Mo s LOL) to a nearby ally leaving the assassin crippled and usually getting targeted by everyone in my team (heh heh heh)
nowhere for you to go now little assassin..... (also Life Sheath only costs 5 nrg and has a decent recharge time and lets many people stand though a spike that would normally decimate them) */vote for Life Sheath today ^^

To add to the thread though, I dont think that its not very 'skillful' to put an automatic teleport to a player who has less than 50 % life and in doing so cause a deep wound, just in time to unleash a fully charged attack combo.

On the times that it does get though and makes me MM fodder it only leaves me thinking - 'god, another 12345678 assassin - what skill.......' */sigh

Theres no way Id take Balthazars Pendulum to counter it (the A/Mo attack chains with sig of jugement) - that elite is horribly specialised and shouldnt be an elite. Its 1 counter against 1 particular 'effect' (KD)

Mr Emu · Nov 24, 2007, 09:28 AM // 09:28

lol, you said Life Sheath

bungusmaximus · Nov 24, 2007, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSSuperman

Hi all - Ive found that as playing AvA often as a monk, casting Life Sheath on youself as soon as you see the Augury of Death hex come up, then hitting dismiss condition and return of fortune (cant remember the name offhand - the prot spell that cancels the next hit and heals you for x health - its symbol is like a blue circle) Ive tanked numerous augury of death spike chains (at least since last week when I started using Life Sheath) then 'return'ing (yes Im an Mo/A complaining about the A/Mo s LOL) to a nearby ally leaving the assassin crippled and usually getting targeted by everyone in my team (heh heh heh)
nowhere for you to go now little assassin..... (also Life Sheath only costs 5 nrg and has a decent recharge time and lets many people stand though a spike that would normally decimate them) */vote for Life Sheath today ^^

To add to the thread though, I dont think that its not very 'skillful' to put an automatic teleport to a player who has less than 50 % life and in doing so cause a deep wound, just in time to unleash a fully charged attack combo.

On the times that it does get though and makes me MM fodder it only leaves me thinking - 'god, another 12345678 assassin - what skill.......' */sigh

Theres no way Id take Balthazars Pendulum to counter it (the A/Mo attack chains with sig of jugement) - that elite is horribly specialised and shouldnt be an elite. Its 1 counter against 1 particular 'effect' (KD)

Except Life Sheath isn't used in arenas, but Shielding hands/Shield of absorption do pretty well against them too.

Preveiling and removing the poison and the hex is a really cheap way of reducing most damage as well I found out. No deep wound and no SOTS sure help. You can also drop veil when you're on your butt.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 24, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorde

Armor will mess all of Assassin combos, specially the ones which relly on daggers.

But popping 100+ damage with Signet of Toxic Shock is something to behold.

Armor actually doesn't do as much to sin combos as other things simply because all the attack skills rely on the +damage to do anything useful, and +damage isn't reduced by armor.