Curse

makosi · Sep 18, 2007, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Is it just me or are these skills both grossly overpowered?

The condition of Augury to create the Deep Wound is far too easy to meet and Signet of Toxic Shock at 12 Deadly Arts does 83 armour ignoring damage with an easy to meet condition.

It is especially inbalanced on a Deadly Paradox assassin with Signet of Judgement and Entangling Asp because if you can't stand up, there's little anybody can do about it. With Deadly Paradox, it's hard to interrupt the spammers actions and you're floored before you know it - then floored again.

Now when you go to Team or Random arenas lots of people are abusing it because it's overpowered so you are forced to work your build around that one specific build. Doesn't that raise alarms?

I'm predicting that this will just draw flames and personal degredation to me because half of the people out there abuse Augury but I think it's worth mentioning anyway.

moko · Sep 18, 2007, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Izzy wants to fix deadly paradox.

Izzy is taking his time.

/sigh

possible solutions to this build:

allow block stances and skills to block the daggers, and once one is blocked it does not count as full lead attack.

kill cost, and either the recharge or cast condition on deadly paradox.

remove augury from the game.

remove the poison from entangling asp. KD is already powerful enough.

this would mean people had to use more energy management, less KD, and another source of poison, weakening the build by a lot but still letting it be viable so noobs can continue farming noobs.

Captain Robo · Sep 18, 2007, 02:05 PM // 14:05

staff sins give assassins a bad name. let them use daggers and die like the rest of us.

I don't think entangling asp needs to be nerfed, that skill has been unchanged since factions was released, its not overpowered. Something should be done about augury, however.

African War Lord · Sep 18, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

sins have been blinded one time too many, let them have fun with their wands. and make a deadly arts wand bitch!

LifesRestorer · Sep 18, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by African War Lord

sins have been blinded one time too many

this is because the class is incompatible with guild wars

Aera · Sep 18, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Make Dancing Daggers an attack skill instead of a spell, Deadly Paradox will disable it and the entire build is basically dead.

moko · Sep 18, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

Make Dancing Daggers an attack skill instead of a spell, Deadly Paradox will disable it and the entire build is basically dead.

so instead of doing 12 you do 21? (Dparadox being 1, DD being 2?)

damage will be worse, you have to weaponswap, can be blocked but besides..still abuseable.

Sab · Sep 18, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Just kill Augury, nothing but gay builds can come out of that skill. After that, balance other Deadly Arts skills to compensate.

Edit: Err I mean kill Deadly Paradox, mistype. On second thought, most of the Deadly Arts line is gimmicky, so I don't mind if they nuke every skill in the A/Mo build.

Abedeus · Sep 18, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Yep, maybe nerf Augury same as you nerfed Impale - Not a hex, but a skill that can be cast after maybe off-hand? So Impale is 1/4 sec, faster recharge and gives damage, but Augury can be used faster (after first offhand, not dual attack) and more often, for the price of no additional dmg and 1 second of cast? It will maybe create new builds... Because seriously, with Signet of Judgment A/Mo can kill a 500 hp character in few seconds, while rendering target nearly helpless. Only a bit weaker than pre-fix (because it wasn't nerf, just bug repair) A/e or E/A with Ice Spear + Deadly Haste or Me/N Virulence + Hypochondria.

wuzzman · Sep 18, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

aurgy of death is the only reason to use a deadly art build lol. Ra farming shouldn't be balanced lol.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 18, 2007, 09:45 PM // 21:45

If you get rid of deadly paradox then everything suddenly becomes fine (hint hint).

Aera · Sep 18, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

so instead of doing 12 you do 21? (Dparadox being 1, DD being 2?)

damage will be worse, you have to weaponswap, can be blocked but besides..still abuseable.

Errr...what?

[skill]Dancing Daggers[/skill] is a spell, if you turn it into an attack skill, you won't be able to use it with [skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill]

That means Deadly Paradox = no lead attack, which means no Entangeling, no Poison, no Signet of Toxic Shock.

That would kind of kill the ghey A/Mo crap.

Riotgear · Sep 18, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

possible solutions to this build:

Toxic Shock has a 15-second recharge without DP. Dancing Daggers has a 1-second cast without DP. Entangling Asp gives you 1 second to put up Spirit Bond when you notice someone's health dropping that awkward jittery way combined with a purple arrow over their bar without DP.

In other words, nerfing Deadly Paradox would effectively gimp the entire combo. Then maybe Feigned Neutrality and Entangling Asp can get their recharges lowered to be useful outside of ridiculous DP spam builds.

Quote:

remove augury from the game.

Replace the deep wound with a KD. Or just remove it and let the skill die.

moko · Sep 18, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

Errr...what?

[skill]Dancing Daggers[/skill] is a spell, if you turn it into an attack skill, you won't be able to use it with [skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill]

That means Deadly Paradox = no lead attack, which means no Entangeling, no Poison, no Signet of Toxic Shock.

That would kind of kill the ghey A/Mo crap.

...so you simply use deadly paradox after using your lead? you lose half cast and making it an attack skill would automatically make it a dagger attack (i think? even if not it doesn't matter.) so you're forced to targetswap etc but in the end nothing matters.

if you want to fix it by disabling one of the key skills it has to be one during the chain and not the one starting it, because you can simply choose not to activate dparadox.

thou, after thinking about it, why does dancing daggers count as lead at all? why would the deadly arts spells work together with dagger? if they changed all of this, along with impale, the line itself could maybe be a bit more viable than just this one gimmick (it does have some potentional skills tbh) -- with the addition off deadly arts weapons and such..it would work out. unfortunately arenanet doesn't care enough anymore to really fix sins.

Div · Sep 18, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Get rid of dancing daggers lead attack ability, or up the recharge to 15 and cost to 10.

Why can't anet just put out a temporary solution that'll weaken it and see how people respond to the changed version instead of taking 2 years to come up with the "perfect solution" which never turns out to be widely desirable anyways...

MelechRic · Sep 18, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

It's pretty prevalent in RA that's for sure. The trouble with it is, as the OP stated, if you're not built to defend against it you're dead. I have no trouble outhealing it on my Rit. When I run a Power Drain mesmer I can shut it down completely.

It's all the other times that it's just annoying.

Riotgear · Sep 19, 2007, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

thou, after thinking about it, why does dancing daggers count as lead at all?

The Assassin class is loaded with a bunch of stupid concepts that don't really pan out. Augury of Death and Scorpion Wire are both abilities that assume an Assassin is going to be a sneaky bastard and weaken you and then when you try to escape, he teleports to you and ASSASSASSINATES U LOL

Deadly Arts in general appears to be designed as a bunch of ways to do things in a fight other than attack, kind of an offensive support line the same way Shadow Arts is a defensive support line.

Dancing Daggers might have been a reliable way to initiate a combo at range before before shadow stepping in and throwing the rest of it, or perhaps just trading the various effects of most other leads with the reliability of a ranged unblockable attack, which wasn't really a dagger skill and was consequently kept out of Dagger Mastery.

Quote:

if they changed all of this, along with impale, the line itself could maybe be a bit more viable than just this one gimmick (it does have some potentional skills tbh)

Impale causing DW seems reasonable, doing 60 damage AND a DW on a 1/4 sec cast is ridiculous though and has been making Horns/BoS overly effective.

Quote:

unfortunately arenanet doesn't care enough anymore to really fix sins.

Assassins are a broken concept and their idea of fixing them is the same way they fix all broken concepts, by raising numbers until they're forced into viability, and everyone inevitably hates it.

The class was designed around two concepts, high mobility and surprise, and "melee for dummies" attack chains. The first saw a lot of use with AOD and created some interesting tactical play, the second allowed bad players a class to pick if they wanted to run up to someone, mash buttons, and expect an effortless kill. Shadow Prison just spared them the effort of running up to them and the inconvenience of getting kited, though the DA spam build is mostly a product of Augury spawning a bunch of degenerate builds and the convenient fact that Deadly Paradox lets them spike you while you're still knocked down and have DD recharged in time to follow up.

Shuuda · Sep 19, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Assassins are a broken concept and their idea of fixing them is the same way they fix all broken concepts, by raising numbers until they're forced into viability, and everyone inevitably hates it.

Please, your assassin bashing is annoying, if you want broken, see a Rit.

Deadly Paradox is the main skill that needs fixing, since it provides lots of other broken (Or at the least, very annoying) Builds (Prema Shadow form for example) But I don't think Assassin casters should be nerfed, since with all the melee hate they need a way to evade it.

Servant of Kali · Sep 19, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Please, your assassin bashing is annoying, if you want broken, see a Rit.

Paragon is worse.

BTW Enough of class bashing pls.

Shuuda · Sep 19, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

what part of balancing for RA is for noobs does this thread not understand???

Although my RA hate is much less than yours, I would agree that balance in RA isn't very important. However, if this build is overpowered in TA, it does need a fix(TA being a real form of PvP).