Curse

yum · Nov 24, 2007, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

Something like "If target foe uses an attack skill, all attack skills are disabled for an additional 6..30 seconds" 3/4 cast, 1...6 d, 20 recharge. The skill can still go through (I HATE getting interrupted by Clums) if you really, really need to D shot something, but it comes at a heavy price. Ok I know it's just Diversion 2, but it can remove Eviscerate and Executioners after a Bulls from play, killing a spike or rather forcing a spike outside of a window. While not gimping the Frenzied auto-attack so the war can still maintain dps and not be totally useless (unlike under typical hex hate).

There is a skill called [skill]Wail of Doom[/skill]. Yours version is too good (3/4 c being run by a mesmer). And Wail is an elite. I agree with the rest. Active playing is FTW.

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 24, 2007, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Wail of Doom is one of those skills that should never ever be made viable. It's just this brainless melee-hate that happens to be completely immune to every form of disruption Guild Wars offers, that also removes all the skill involved in playing melee while it's active.

Riotgear · Nov 24, 2007, 09:01 AM // 09:01

I'm still surprised to this day that Wail of Doom hasn't seen any use. While the drawbacks are obvious, the ease of landing it, the complete lack of ability to counter it, and the ridiculous effect have always seemed worth pursuing. I thought people would find a way to deal with the cost and find an excuse to run it given that you can basically perma-gimp one of the enemy's melee with one skill slot with it, guess not though.

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 24, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

The problem with Wail of Doom right now is that you have to be a primary necromancer with a large investment in Soul Reaping. Wail itself feels like a good use of an elite, but you can't actually make a bar with it. That guy has minimal extra energy to spend thanks to spamming WoD, he doesn't have a lot of attribute points, and his selection of non-elites from his primary class are all shit. If necromancers had a strong, efficient choice of non-elites, I'd expect Wail to see more play.

Riotgear · Nov 24, 2007, 09:23 AM // 09:23

I think the issue was more redundancy: You didn't really need more melee hate on a pre-nerf Curses bar, but having Reaper's or Corrupt let you do more with that character slot. It's not like you really have an excuse to run something other than melee hate on one anyway.

Cost was largely covered by GoLE. They didn't seem to have a problem throwing out lots of 10/15e hexes then.

frojack · Nov 24, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

There is a skill called [skill]Wail of Doom[/skill]. Yours version is too good (3/4 c being run by a mesmer). And Wail is an elite. I agree with the rest. Active playing is FTW.

Thing is Wail is slightly different. It's effect might as well always trigger. It's not exactly conditional. Where as what I suggested only triggers on attack skill. However, your probably right. The numbers are probably off and I imagine there are angles I'm failing to see.
Not sure about cast time. It would need much testing. A Frenzy fueled adrenal spike will use a maximum of something like 3 attack skills (Bull's, Evis, Exec). Theres a good chance that unless the necro is camping a war, they'll miss that window. Or it will just mean the opposition will need to deal with the necro to open a window. It's a pretty steep price, considering what you already have to do these days to get a kill through.

I guess the problem is the fact that this kinda' necro will always be camping warriors (a pretty shit slot to be honest). Clumsiness guys do that already to an extent but they bring more to the table and are under heavy expenses. A 1 second cast wouldn't be a major problem (it will be hard to catch an AD spike on reaction, but there are other 'tell' factors they could use). However it still doesn't fix the problem of this on a mesmer (Melee Ward all over again)...

I dunno'. Can you really point curse necros away from warriors for any good reason? Is there a way to significantly reduce the appeal of this on mesmers? Is it even desirable considering we already have Clumsiness guys?

jayce · Nov 24, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

i have to agree with Riotgear when it comes to Wail Of Doom. it seem that not a lot people know or understand how strong this skill really is. i mean come on, this skill can disable all attack skills of any attacker, not just warriors, but paragons, rangers, assassins and dervish. its absolutely destroys assassins' chains and the paragons and warriors will have to build up their adrealine again after the effects of this skill wears off. even at 9 in Soul Reaping it last 14 seconds, and it recharges in 15 seconds. even it the most extreme cases, its also an interrupt current action skill first so if you wanted to, you can interrupt any skill, spell, ritual, etc. and just to disable those attack skills, you only have to catch the attacker while attacking, which includes the brief moment after they have completed an entire attack motion or swing. they do not have to use an attack skill to have their attacks disabled. simply attacking is good enough.

Jayce Of Underworld

wuzzman · Nov 24, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

well if people complain loud enough Cluminess might become RA/AB folder again. At this rate I see hex's period not being usable as effective anti-melee measures. Wail of Doom, is in soul reaping, nuff said. Even if you move it out of soul reaping it won't last long before it's shuffled out of the meta. The condition for using wail of doom is too easy to fulfill.

Riotgear · Nov 24, 2007, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Clumsiness isn't even RA/AB fodder. Without a decent healer and additional melee hate, even terrible players can get away with just attacking you through it there.

Clumsiness is probably one of the best archetypes for an anti-melee hex, it just needs a slight duration hit.

wuzzman · Nov 24, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Clumisness isn't RA/AB folder now but it will be. Even if you reduce the duration to 5 sec, on a 4 sec recharge your still keeping any decent warrior from using frenzy, or doing their job at that.

audioaxes · Nov 25, 2007, 04:21 PM // 16:21

prolly could merge death and soul reaping into one line
and maybe its time to unnerf oob and bip

Div · Nov 25, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Clumisness isn't RA/AB folder now but it will be. Even if you reduce the duration to 5 sec, on a 4 sec recharge your still keeping any decent warrior from using frenzy, or doing their job at that.

First: it's fodder.

Second: decent warriors in RA/AB?

Third: I think necros need more utility for soul reaping to truly be fixed. They're simply too one-dimensional in PvP.

Riotgear · Nov 26, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Second: decent warriors in RA/AB?

Clumsiness is useful for opportunistically disrupting attack chains from good warriors, buying you time for your monk to save the target. Since good warriors and (good) monks are both a rarity in RA/AB, you can kind of forget that interrupt factor being useful. Better off just casting Empathy on them and tanking them while they kill themself because they don't have a healer either.

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 26, 2007, 09:02 AM // 09:02

The strength of Clumsiness spam on a warrior is that it keeps him from Frenzying too much, especially at VoD. Warriors who aren't frenzying aren't killing anything.

Riotgear · Nov 26, 2007, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Ineptitude is more discouraging to Frenzy. There are enough ways already to send damage at a warrior using Frenzy if you really want to. Clumsiness spam gains its advantage from hurting their pacing and reliability.

Moloch Vein · Dec 12, 2007, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Partially reviving this thread from the dead.

This is a probably quite lame set of suggestions.

Soul Reaping: Whenever a non-spirit creature within range dies, you gain 1 energy for every 2 points in Soul Reaping.

For every (x) damage sustained by any creature within earshot, return (y*SR) energy.

Skill changes:

Blood Magic:
- - - - - - -

Awaken The Blood: Change skill name. Change skill type to Stance. Affects Curses, Death and Blood Magic. Moved to Soul Reaping.

Dark Bond: Moved to Death Magic.

Foul Feast: Remove from the game or redesign completely.

General: Increase all damage from skills not stealing health. Consider making life stealing subject to reduction by protection skills.

Curses:
- - - -

Atrophy: Moved to Soul Reaping. A slight buff might be needed.

Chilblains: Increase damage, change enchantments lost to 1...2, can now target ally.

Depravity: Consider moving to Soul Reaping.

Malaise: Moved to Soul Reaping.

Price of Failure: For x seconds, the next time target fails to hit with an attack, that foe suffers y damage. Reduce casting time, reduce recharge, reduce casting cost.

Reckless Haste: Not sure. Needs rework.

Rigor Mortis: Reduce recharge.

Well of Weariness: Moved to Soul Reaping.

Wither: Consider moving to Soul Reaping.

General: Consider changing set-it-and-forget-it effects to proactive skills. Divert skills causing energy denial to Soul Reaping.

Death Magic:
- - - - - - -

No relevant changes I can think of.

Soul Reaping:
- - - - - - -

Hexer's Vigor: Reduce casting time to 1 second or change skill type to Stance.

Icy Veins: Moved to Death Magic.

Masochism: Skill type changed to Stance.

Reaper's Mark: Causes +0...1 Energy Regeneration to caster.

Wail of Doom: Change function to "if target foe is using an attack skill. Lower blackout duration, lower recharge, casting cost: 10e.

No Attribute:
- - - - - - -

Gaze of Contempt: Moved to Soul Reaping. 50% failure chance with SR 4 or less.

- - - - - - -

More must be added, rethought. Fixing a class as badly garbled as this won't be easy.

wuzzman · Dec 12, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

wasn't clumsiness nerfed to ftl? and you think necro's will be made valuable again?

Thom Bangalter · Dec 12, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Nothing sounds more exciting to the PvP community than buffing hexes.

Razz L Dazzle · Dec 12, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Those are some pretty terrible suggested changes.

Moloch Vein · Dec 12, 2007, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Then please do enlighten me as to what is so terrible, and then we can discuss from there.