Curse

Sab · Dec 15, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

If this attack hits, it interrupts target foe's action. If that action was a Spell, it is disabled for additional 10 seconds. This attack cannot be blocked. If this attack fails to interrupt a spell, Magebane Shot is disabled for 12 seconds.

I'd just go back to BA or Cripshot with Savage/Distracting.

Rangers often Magebane someone who's not casting a spell, like if you're spreading poison, interrupting spirits and Res Sigs, predicting a cast, or assisting on a spike. Magebane would essentially become useless in those situations, unless you want to eat the 12s disable.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaen

As for as TA goes, many skills balanced for 8v8 are far too strong in a 4v4 format. The fact is with just 32 skill slots it's very hard to make a balanced build that is capable of dealing with everything you might encounter in TA. TA is rather build-wars-centric for this reason and I don't see anyway to fix it. The thing is, if magebane is truly as prolific in TA as people in this thread claim, it should be worth it to run one of the numerous counters. In addition, the magebane ranger for the most part is dedicated interrupter, if you bring any sort of counter, it will likely be in the form of bsurge or hexes which also work on opposing frontliners which makes you more versatile. And yes, it's VERY possible to get casts off against a magebane ranger. Especially rangers who spam it on recharge.

And I honestly I don't want to hear, "bsurge doesn't work against rangers because they have mend touch." If you say this, your opinion on this topic really doesn't matter.

Magebane happens to counter most of the counters you'd bring against a Magebane Ranger. Oh and BSurge is crap in TA.

makosi · Dec 16, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

It's time this skill was deleted because it makes spellcasters redunant. Why not make spells against the EULA and be done with it?

Riotgear · Dec 16, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by pygar

I understand what you are trying to say....but why is it acceptable for good monks to dominate the meta, and not good rangers?

It is acceptable for good rangers do dominate the meta.

It is not acceptable for bad rangers to dominate the meta.

Guess what Magebane Shot (and Warmonger's Weapon) let bad rangers do?

erk · Dec 17, 2007, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Problem is that too many caster interrupts and people just go back to Melee heavy builds to whack the Rangers out of play. This get boring.

On the weekend interrupt Rangers were in plague proportion in RA id1 to the point where I gave up playing my usual caster builds and played Ranger for most of the time. If you can't beat them join them! I didn't run Magebane myself. It was pretty funny the number of all Ranger teams I was in. Not sure how bad it was in TA, but the NR teams still seem to be there a lot.

I prefer to play a variety of different casters either damage dealers or hex, but I was sick of being interrupted so that rules out pretty much trying to do much damage as a caster. I guess I could have tried a signet spammer, at least they don't get the 10sec additional disable when interrupted. Problem in RA is that all the self heals take too long to cast, a rangers paradise.

Sun Fired Blank · Dec 17, 2007, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

I'd just go back to BA or Cripshot with Savage/Distracting.

So be it. From a caster standpoint, Magebane is tremendously frustrating. The unblockable clause means it punches through every form of general defense; I can't even stance proactively to stop it. As you mentioned, the recharge means it can be used to stop just about anything and be fired anytime it has even a remote chance of working (however slim that may be) with few practical constraints. Magebane's disable period isn't nearly as problematic as d-shot, but I certainly don't shrug it away either.

As mentioned before by someone else, ranger interrupts are designed to be relatively disposable. However, to be frank, an interrupt like Magebane shouldn't be. On a broader note, Magebane is on my TA skill hatelist: a very marginal list which also includes Rampage as One, Steady Stance, Fear Me, and Warmonger's Weapon. It frustrates me very deeply that 90% of builds and matches rely on these skills; I hope they blast every one of them into dust for the next update, and I very much hope for a future that doesn't comprise zergway lite, thumpers in your face, spearchucker + warmonger's abuse and whoever's magebane is generally more kickass and / or lucky on the blindfiring.

ensoriki · Dec 17, 2007, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Being stopped constantly sounds like
Melee being blinded/blocked.

magebane making casting harder isn't exactly a bad thing.
Casters generally have it on the easier side of the stick on getting their skills off than their melee counterparts.

Quote:

It's time this skill was deleted because it makes spellcasters redunant. Why not make spells against the EULA and be done with it?

Melodramatic Hyperbole? Pfft sillyness.
Thats like saying Block makes melee redundant
then someone says "oh but there are anti block skills"
then someone replies "there are anti interrupt skills too!"
Then someone says "Stfu about counters"

No hyperbole please T_T

TheOneMephisto · Dec 17, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Being stopped constantly sounds like
Melee being blinded/blocked.

magebane making casting harder isn't exactly a bad thing.
Casters generally have it on the easier side of the stick on getting their skills off than their melee counterparts.

Except that melee don't even have to get off skills and they can still output massive DPS and have a huge battlefield presence. That's the difference, to quote Ensign, casters are their skills, and without them they're pretty useless.

But melee have to have those blind/block counters in order to balance them, as melee are simply too powerful without them. Casters don't need a counter this strong, and definitely don't need one this strong that doesn't take any skill at all.

But all in all, let's just say that was a really bad comparison.

ensoriki · Dec 17, 2007, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Except that melee don't even have to get off skills and they can still output massive DPS and have a huge battlefield presence. That's the difference, to quote Ensign, casters are their skills, and without them they're pretty useless.

But melee have to have those blind/block counters in order to balance them, as melee are simply too powerful without them. Casters don't need a counter this strong, and definitely don't need one this strong that doesn't take any skill at all.

But all in all, let's just say that was a really bad comparison.

Fair enough.

Consider that Magebane is one skill.
Also consider that Magebane is a elite distracting shot, that functions only off spells and nothing else.

In a sense Magebane is good enough because its distracting shot that triggers not off everything, but instead one thing.
The only concern I see this skill having is that its 5 recharge and thus can disable 2 spells for an additional 10 seconds, in 10 seconds.
While distracting does One, Anything skill for 20 seconds every 10 seconds.
Magebane......is pretty much fine >.>
You need to give this skill time for people to grow into and become accustomed to.
Once people are familar with this skill and used to it, they won't feel as inclined to complain.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 17, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58

I liked the 'it can be dodged' comment. Classic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

In a sense Magebane is good enough because its distracting shot that triggers not off everything, but instead one thing.
The only concern I see this skill having is that its 5 recharge and thus can disable 2 spells for an additional 10 seconds, in 10 seconds.
While distracting does One, Anything skill for 20 seconds every 10 seconds.
Magebane......is pretty much fine >.>
You need to give this skill time for people to grow into and become accustomed to.
Once people are familar with this skill and used to it, they won't feel as inclined to complain.

Your comparison with Dshot is wrong. The two skills look alike on the surface, but are in fact totally different, much like SoD and guardian (big prot and small prot). Magebane is a low risk/low reward interrupt like Savage, Dshot is a high cost/high reward. Cost not meaning the energy, but the fact you won't be able to use it for 10s. The problem is the reward is too high for the cost, because the cost is practically not there. 5s is too short for any sort of disabling clause, even if it's only 10 seconds.

ensoriki · Dec 17, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

True enough thomas....

Considering I've killed monks just spamming savage distracting and Magebane...magebane makes their individual flaws become less visible.
If distracting is down, you have magebane which is superior to savage, in cost and effect, and is unblockable >.>

what can you really do to it though?

10 recharge? makes it inferior to distracting shot and its only saving grace would be is that its unblockable >.>

sixofone · Dec 19, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Well, unblockable is pretty nice, especially when you can interrupt anything, and disable a Spell for 10 seconds.

DS - low cost (5e), little damage, interrupt, but long disable of any skill, moderate recharge (10s); blockable

Savage - moderate cost (10e), interrupt, extra dam if used against a Spell - small recharge (5s); blockable

MB - low cost (5e), no extra dam, interrupt, moderate disable if a Spell, small recharge (5s); unblockable

I don't know - when compared to the other Ranger skills, I think a 10e cost would be fair. Granted, with enough Expertise, you're only spending about 5e, but you have to invest in that attribute. I agree with Sab, make it tied to Expertise, and slide the disable accordingly.

Llint · Dec 19, 2007, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

Well, unblockable is pretty nice, especially when you can interrupt anything, and disable a Spell for 10 seconds.

DS - low cost (5e), little damage, interrupt, but long disable of any skill, moderate recharge (10s); blockable

Savage - moderate cost (10e), interrupt, extra dam if used against a Spell - small recharge (5s); blockable

MB - low cost (5e), no extra dam, interrupt, moderate disable if a Spell, small recharge (5s); unblockable

I don't know - when compared to the other Ranger skills, I think a 10e cost would be fair. Granted, with enough Expertise, you're only spending about 5e, but you have to invest in that attribute. I agree with Sab, make it tied to Expertise, and slide the disable accordingly.

Tbh slapping it in expertise won't make any noticeable difference since every ranger I know runs 14 expertise.

erk · Dec 21, 2007, 01:18 AM // 01:18

It's not the energy, it's the recharge that needs nerfing. A ranger camps on a caster and he can fire off interrupts at will MB -> D-shot - Savage -> MB one ofter the other so the caster can't get a thing off, has to look for cover, and that often takes him out of range of his target. The Ranger just mindlessly spams one interrupt after an other whilst the caster has to duck and weave to try and get a single cast off! Seems hardly balanced.

moko · Dec 21, 2007, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

It's not the energy, it's the recharge that needs nerfing. A ranger camps on a caster and he can fire off interrupts at will MB -> D-shot - Savage -> MB one ofter the other so the caster can't get a thing off, has to look for cover, and that often takes him out of range of his target. The Ranger just mindlessly spams one interrupt after an other whilst the caster has to duck and weave to try and get a single cast off! Seems hardly balanced.

so, i guess you never played as a cripshot? you should notice that a 10 E elite at quick recharge is NOT spammable. i guess if people really wanted to, they would go with the energy preparation, but if that happens, bad rangers won't do shit anymore anyways.

nerfing energy > recharge.

Seraphim of Chaos · Dec 21, 2007, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Recharge is definitely the largest problem here. 5 energy with 14 expertise is pretty spammable.