Curse

elektra_lucia · Dec 26, 2007, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Hey,

I'm sure lorekeeper can post much more on this (hint hint) but there's some things I wanted to comment on about r-spike. The old school r-spike was not prot spiritable and I think because of this, people are still stuck in the past (not sure). I was shocked to note about being told to use a staff (on full prot monk) and also don't spiritbond.

This was mostly from prot monks point of view (and infuser).

I think I'm not mistaken that Tommy from QQ posted a thread on monking and the weapons he used, in this he mentioned using a staff (probably). It seems that certain players like to follow in his footsteps but get a bad idea and ONLY use staff. I don't know why this is. I don't have a link to the thread, but from what I remember he actually says he switches near every cast and will use up all of his weapons. That doesn't mean, only staff and low set.

Firstly - Ranger spike -DOES- hit for more than 60 (current r-spike that is in HA). This means, to people who bitch at their infusers, fair enough but really the spike should be spirit bonded. Secondly, don't assume the spike is absolutely terrible just because it got spirit bonded.

Sometimes teams relax when they think a spike is bad and then later you lose the match because people weren't concentrating enough.

Also, a 20% staff is good but for spirit-bond you can get away with 20% axe (if you have the energy).

At the moment I run like, rof, spiritbond, gaurdian, soa, channeling, veil, restore conditions and aura of stability. Same with two monk backline, I don't really like gift that much. This is HA not GVG and for HA I find gaurdian much better.

It is fair enough if you say use a staff, I personally think that the cast of gaurdian is extremely long and so I will always use 40/40. Same goes to SoA, except in certain examples. It depends who is on you (you could be vs IWAY and I will stick to 40/40 between fear me's).

Another thing is that, prot monks complain spirit bond got stripped. People forget that it ends after 10 attacks. I personally commented on this in a group, my words were 'shame spirit-bond ends after 10'. I got flamed (welcome to PUGS).

I wish that spirit bond was more obvious, the animation. Like it would flash when it has triggered off. I find it ridiculous that teams (pugs) can make fun of you for doing something and they don't realise they are wrong.

For r-spike I also keep gaurdian on the infuser as often as I can. You can pre-prot some teams BUT in HA it's pretty hard to pre-prot the spike due to the nature of the maps.

P.S. This thread wasn't aimed at nightmare spike.

P.P.S. I am going to edit this post to be longer, but someone who flamed me for using spiritbond vs r-spike, wants me to post it as soon as possible so he can flame me

.

wuzzman · Dec 26, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

geez. you don't need to have a wall of text on how to beat rspike...just have some f'ing pressure and the noobomelts will go down. also plz, 2/3 of their spike is prevented by decent pre proting and yes you can even preport with guardian against that build.

elektra_lucia · Dec 26, 2007, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Well this guy wanted me to make thread, so I did. =D. You'll see. And yeah you can pre prot but I mean, not as easy as like in GVG =P.

Bowser Monks · Dec 26, 2007, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Ok...ranger spike a long time ago was more prottable than it is today. Let me explain why. Old school ranger spike never had anthem of guidance, the only anti block was rend enchants or rigor mortis, and either way once the prot monk sees a hex or rend on a target its so simple to catch the spike with reversal and infuse. Prot spirit never worked because they did under 10% with each PART of dual shot.

As time went on, ranger spike DID get nerfed by increasing time on dual shot, but it was in fact buffed with all the para and ritu stuff that they use now (although i would much rather have the older ranger spike). Anyways, we were playing and u acted like you saved every spike with spirit bond which is just a joke. The infuser did a decent job and i did a decent job with heal partying as they spiked.

The pictures above show you that with a full load of brutal and marks and expertise that ranger spike does not do over 60 dmg per SINGLE ATTACK (from 1 part of dual or forked) ( i used both to show this) on a target with over 60 armor. The ones with 60 armor did do a little over 60. But since you are such an amazing monk I assume u switched to ur shield as they spiked like the others did, therefore making the dmg less than 60.

Bowser Monks · Dec 26, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

lucia i just read your pps...your an idiot i didnt ask you to post this and i dont even want to waste any more of my time for this. You PMed me and said you were going to humiliate me for saying spirit bond is useless vs rspike.

elektra_lucia · Dec 26, 2007, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Ok...ranger spike a long time ago was more prottable than it is today. Let me explain why. Old school ranger spike never had anthem of guidance, the only anti block was rend enchants or rigor mortis, and either way once the prot monk sees a hex or rend on a target its so simple to catch the spike with reversal and infuse. Prot spirit never worked because they did under 10% with each PART of dual shot.

As time went on, ranger spike DID get nerfed by increasing time on dual shot, but it was in fact buffed with all the para and ritu stuff that they use now (although i would much rather have the older ranger spike). Anyways, we were playing and u acted like you saved every spike with spirit bond which is just a joke. The infuser did a decent job and i did a decent job with heal partying as they spiked.

The pictures above show you that with a full load of brutal and marks and expertise that ranger spike does not do over 60 dmg per SINGLE ATTACK (from 1 part of dual or forked) ( i used both to show this) on a target with over 60 armor. The ones with 60 armor did do a little over 60. But since you are such an amazing monk I assume u switched to ur shield as they spiked like the others did, therefore making the dmg less than 60.

Quote:

lucia i just read your pps...your an idiot i didnt ask you to post this and i dont even want to waste any more of my time for this. You PMed me and said you were going to humiliate me for saying spirit bond is useless vs rspike.

You humiliated yourself. Why would I need to humiliate you?
I was in shield when taking attack.

You also said in PM (spamming me) you hate me because I kicked you from a group, so I wanted to help your ignorance o.0.

Darling, you forgot favourable winds :[.

Bowser Monks · Dec 26, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

who the hell said nightmare weapon...learn to read...it is brutal weapon in the test i just made are you retarded? and if you were in the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing shield then you woudlnt be taking over 60 dmg like i just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing proved wow you are so retarded man.

Bowser Monks · Dec 26, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

I PM you saying i hate you for kicking me in a group? I dont hate you i think you are a terrible player. You claim you can spirit bond a spike yet you couldnt spirit bond any of the warrior spikes they made the group we played before. They flawlessed us cause u cant use spirit bond when it is necessary. And as for the kicking from the group, you kicked me because i was using a staff as a prot monk rather than a 40/40 set.

Tab · Dec 26, 2007, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Wow, you got kicked from a group. Get over it, nobody cares.

Anata · Dec 26, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Wait it is bad to use a staff on a full prot? 40% faster prot spells 20% (Global Recharge) and 20% enchantments is bad? I don't really understand this post.

Tab · Dec 26, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

What Elektra is saying is that you normally have 40/40 heal for gift, prot staff, shield set and +30 set. With full prot, you don't need 40/40 heal, so take 40/40 prot for skills like SB.

Bowser Monks · Dec 26, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

you kicked me from the group because I was using a staff instead of 40/40 set. And I dont hate you, I think you are terrible player. You failed at preprotting the warrior spike yet u claim u were pro vs the ranger spike. So bad man really. A warrior spike RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing flawlessed us when we have spirit bond and such a pro monk as he claims. you suck really sry.

Bowser Monks · Dec 26, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

toilets i got kicked from elektras fail group a year ago not from the group we just played today

Tab · Dec 26, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Well stop QQing and go away then. Nobody cares about your bruised ego.

Bowser Monks · Dec 26, 2007, 10:20 PM // 22:20

bruised ego? your obviously a friend of lucia. I dont care about what you idiots think..im just trying to show him that spirit bond hardly works vs the ranger spike, therefore going against most of this thread. how does that have anything to do with my ego?

Tab · Dec 26, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

I've never talked to or met elektra in my life.

undeadgun · Dec 26, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

on topic, i myself found that when face R spike, the infuser in team is a bit more effective than the SB does, because some of the hits from Forked and most of the hits from Dual wont trigger the SB. i didnt mean SB is useless when face r spike, just less effective than infuse does.

elektra_lucia · Dec 26, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

As far as I know, Bowser was infusing with 40/40 (no extra plus health). The ONLY reason I remember this is because Nadia Roawk was in the group, and he only prots =p. I know that we used to run two prots though, and there was a reason I wanted him to use the weapon. It was a long time ago now but it was important at the time =P. He didn't have a low set, I think was a problem also.

Quote:

I PM you saying i hate you for kicking me in a group? I dont hate you i think you are a terrible player.

Maybe I am confused...

Quote:

Wait it is bad to use a staff on a full prot? 40% faster prot spells 20% (Global Recharge) and 20% enchantments is bad? I don't really understand this post.

No no, 20% enchant is good, but when running full prot you will want to weapon switch. Due to an argument I had a year ago with Bowser, he raged at me for using 40/40; however, 40/40 is good with things like gaurdian/soa

. Due to the high cast time.

Quote:

toilets i got kicked from elektras fail group a year ago not from the group we just played today

lol...

sbxC · Dec 26, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Being as objective as I can, here, I'll try to show that protting is indeed useful versus a rangerspike. I was playing on the team that this argument refers to. Now, the first thing to understand in the build we ran is that most of the time, depending on the armor, a ranger can do anywhere from 55 to 140 damage per hit. An important factor that Bowser left out of his argument is the paragon and Favorable Winds.

The standard ranger attack bar for the build we ran was-
Forked Arrow - Savage Shot - Dual Shot - Distracting Shot - [e]Glass Arrows
The latter of the two attack are only used if forked is PDed or D-shotted. Favorable winds is also added for +6 damage and arrows moving twice as fast, which increase the critical hit rate. Using Dual Shot DOES decrease damage, and is only a BACKUP spike, when we run it.

The ritualist bar that added damage included-
Brutal Weapon - Shell Shock
Shell Shock is applied on most spikes.

The paragon bar that mattered, as we ran it was-
Vicious Attack - Go For The Eyes! - Anthem of Envy - [e]Shatter Storm
Critical attacks do more damage, and Anthem of Envy adds 22 damage PER attack to a rangerspike when it comes up.

The following screenshots are with a sundering longbow of fortitude with 15^50 and customized.

Forked Arrow on 100 armor

Normal Attack after Forked Arrow on 100 armor

Forked Arrow on 80 armor from afar

Regular attack on 60 armor

Regular attack on 100 armor

If you've viewed all of these, you can see that only ONCE, I did not do above 60 damage. Now keep in mind this is without "Go For The Eyes!" and Anthem of Envy. And no Shell Shock.

So, drama aside. Glass Arrow rangerspike is completely prottable.

Bowser Monks · Dec 26, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

elektra you change your attacks every time. First you say u kick me for using staff now its 40/40 set? the truth is i have 4 weapon sets, 1 defensive (fort+shield), 1 40/40, 1 staff for prot (if hybrid or prot, otherwise -5 energy), 1 high energy. I stay in defensive all the time unless i cast a skill in which i switch the according weapon set?