Curse

Thomas.knbk · Dec 22, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

people will complain about 12 man spike builds ^_^

No they wouldn't because scoring kills is relatively unimportant in AB. It's movement that wins you games.

It would be awesomer than GvG by a longshot.

~ Dan ~ · Dec 22, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Yes i would be interested in this but it should be kept simple. Instead of the leader having to manage between 3 different teams, just make it 1 big party of 12 again.

Quote:

wuzzman
people will complain about 12 man spike builds ^_^

Then they can carry on playing unorganized, random AB.

TheOneMephisto · Dec 23, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Yes i would be interested in this but it should be kept simple. Instead of the leader having to manage between 3 different teams, just make it 1 big party of 12 again.

I'd be worried about party-wide effects in a 12-man group, but after thinking about it, there really aren't that many skills that would be abusable. The old main worry was aegis, but with the new version of aegis the only real thing might be Heal Party, and even that probably won't be too big of a problem.

But I wouldn't count out the possibility of spike builds becoming overpowered. I'm not sure, but I could easily imagine something like a 6-6 bloodspike split that includes 2-4 fallbacks in order to make up in movement that might be able to dominate. Or even an 8-man group (with 2 fallbacks) and then 4 movement control characters, like 2 teams of cripshot + rit/ele with water snares that run around delaying the other team.

**Marty Silverblade** · Dec 23, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Hmmm, this would make AB fun. I hate it when I escape a Kurzick mob with 100 health left and get killed by some random mending wammo. Promoting bad builds ftl.

~ Dan ~ · Dec 23, 2007, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

But I wouldn't count out the possibility of spike builds becoming overpowered. I'm not sure, but I could easily imagine something like a 6-6 bloodspike split that includes 2-4 fallbacks in order to make up in movement that might be able to dominate. Or even an 8-man group (with 2 fallbacks) and then 4 movement control characters, like 2 teams of cripshot + rit/ele with water snares that run around delaying the other team.

The only thing i was fearing this sort of change would bring is discrimination. I can go into AB, tab --> add everyone and away i go.

With this it could end up "LF r5+ (glad, hero, K/L?) bloodspiker must have vent". Atleast with the OP idea that shouldn't happen, as random / organized would be split.

However most of the people in AB are complete tards and couldn't care less about a proper team - so would you even get enough people for organized AB?

It could take a long time to put together a team, especially as you'll e wanting that certain profession.

TheOneMephisto · Dec 23, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

However most of the people in AB are complete tards and couldn't care less about a proper team - so would you even get enough people for organized AB?

It could take a long time to put together a team, especially as you'll e wanting that certain profession.

I don't think PuGs would work at all, as pretty much all those people would be in organized things. It would probably end up being something populated solely by dedicated AB guilds, other PvP guilds during dowtimes (like non-GvG times), or PuGs between friends/alliances.

elektra_lucia · Dec 23, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52

no i wouldn't be interested.

Riotgear · Dec 23, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Shouts and spirits affect non-party allies, about the only thing left are party heals.

I don't think spike builds would be a problem, with a 6-6 split you still have a way to dodge both groups in practically all situations, and spiking someone down just means they're down for 20 seconds with no DP. That's assuming people don't carry a glyph-rez or Death Pact to keep people on their feet. You're also trying to get a group of 6 people in range of someone on a wide-open map with scattered objectives and multiple routes.

In general, the things that make spike builds effective aren't terribly relevant because of the extremely light death penalties. I'd imagine movement and AOE-oriented stuff would be much more common.

EDIT -- I'd be somewhat worried about ridiculous shadow-step chains, but given that it's fairly easy to pack enchant removal into a group of 4 to blow up Shadow Meld/Recall chains, that may not be an issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

The only thing i was fearing this sort of change would bring is discrimination. I can go into AB, tab --> add everyone and away i go.

Read my original post. I was suggesting that this be split into a separate zone with a separate queue.

ensoriki · Dec 23, 2007, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Ensoriki is intrigued.

Jade quarry doesn't even need to be duplicated anyways.
Nobody plays it, so nobody's going to complain if it gets changed from random to 8/8 right?

TaCktiX · Dec 23, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18

I'm reminded of an AB I had a couple months ago. I got two guild teams that managed to sync, and we had a team of [dr] alliance folks (the guys who own Cavalon) in the third team. We so badly rolled the Kurzicks it was rather funny. I would kill to have that experience again, even if it meant the Kurzicks weren't as easily rolled.

/Signed x1000

halcyonbiscuit · Dec 23, 2007, 07:14 AM // 07:14

AB, sure. Jade Quarry, irrelevant because no one plays there. FA, no. Either 8 Kurzick healers and bonders or 8 Luxon E/A shadow form bombers = gg.

frojack · Dec 23, 2007, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

I'd be worried about party-wide effects in a 12-man group, but after thinking about it, there really aren't that many skills that would be abusable. The old main worry was aegis, but with the new version of aegis the only real thing might be Heal Party, and even that probably won't be too big of a problem.

But I wouldn't count out the possibility of spike builds becoming overpowered. I'm not sure, but I could easily imagine something like a 6-6 bloodspike split that includes 2-4 fallbacks in order to make up in movement that might be able to dominate. Or even an 8-man group (with 2 fallbacks) and then 4 movement control characters, like 2 teams of cripshot + rit/ele with water snares that run around delaying the other team.

This is a fair concern. At first it will be a little cubersome, but like always, people will just find a way to exploit the numbers, Split or no split. Especially under stuff like Fall Back! I know! Nerf stuff like Fall Back! to party members only and make Recall die (30 second disable or some crap). Even though this would piss many people off, Organised AB would probably be worth it. AB would certainly be interesting with a fully organised team, but I like the idea of separate smaller teams working together in a more micro-structure with 2 sub -lieutenants managing their own squad.

It could really open up some interesting things. Splitting off a ranger to help out lieutenant number 2 as you think you can handle yourself 3 vs. whatever, then getting your ranger back with 1 other since your now under fire... I'm excited already!

~ Dan ~ · Dec 23, 2007, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Read my original post. I was suggesting that this be split into a separate zone with a separate queue.

Read the whole of my post. I also put that the OP's way of doing it would work for both types of people.

I was just talking about my general fear of the idea itself - but that wasn't taking into account a practical way to do it. Sheesh..

Smilin' Assassin · Dec 23, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

8 on 8 Jade Quarry would probably not improve anything, because guild teams will rather GvG or HA .. but 6 on 6 might revitalize it ~

Riotgear · Dec 23, 2007, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Sheesh..

I'm not trying to be hostile, I'm trying to make sure you understand the argument I'm presenting.

Shuuda · Dec 23, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smilin' Assassin

8 on 8 Jade Quarry would probably not improve anything, because guild teams will rather GvG or HA .. but 6 on 6 might revitalize it ~

I disagree, guild teams might not always want to GvG, and HA is a pile of crap in the eyes of most GOOD guilds these days. I see nothing wrong with offering another form of team PvP, as long as it's well balanced, and fun in someway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

no i wouldn't be interested.

Is that meant to mean something of value, I believe you missed off the part where you add reasons to give your opinion value.

Riotgear · Dec 23, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Jade quarry doesn't even need to be duplicated anyways.
Nobody plays it, so nobody's going to complain if it gets changed from random to 8/8 right?

Ironically, that's true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by halcyonbiscuit

Either 8 Kurzick healers and bonders or 8 Luxon E/A shadow form bombers = gg.

More like seven copies of Savannah Heat, one Shadow Shroud/Augury, and a couple Well of the Profane versus 8 copies of Infuse Health and Cry of Frustration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Is that meant to mean something of value, I believe you missed off the part where you add reasons to give your opinion value.

Now now, I made this thread primarily to gauge overall opinion. If the answer is "no" then that's enough for me.

ensoriki · Dec 23, 2007, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Also lets say Jade Quarry did become 8/8.
Theres still a lack of players, more people could probably come, theres no reward though.
You can ignore this suggestion if you want to, but perhaps you could edit your 1st post and put some additional reward to Jade quarry to make this change to organized pvp really work.

Organization pvp is all fine and good....and it be awesome.
You notice how TA is somewhat empty in places?
Jade Quarry would be worse.

Shuuda · Dec 23, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Organization pvp is all fine and good....and it be awesome.
You notice how TA is somewhat empty in places?
Jade Quarry would be worse.

The reason TA is empty is because it's easier to get gladiator points in RA, if TA had a unique (better than RA) reward, it would attract more people. Same with this idea, it needs a better reward than random AB/FA/JQ, if it doesn't get one, no one will play it.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 23, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

However most of the people in AB are complete tards and couldn't care less about a proper team - so would you even get enough people for organized AB?

It could take a long time to put together a team, especially as you'll e wanting that certain profession.

You're looking at it the wrong way. If it's made possible to run organized AB teams, the good players will come. Plus, you have an extra excuse to hang out with 12 people on vent.