Curse

wuzzman · Jan 03, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Channeling lets you spam Orison under pressure on a HB Monk. Glyph of Lesser Energy lets you continue to squeeze out Heal Party. I'll take the latter over the former in a clear majority of situations in HA. My complaint with virtually every pottytrained-for-halls Healer's Boon Monk is that they spam 5e heals too much and don't use Heal Party enough. If you can keep pumping out Heal Parties with Channeling, more power to you, but my experience is that Channeling-HB Monks hit low energy and do nothing but spam cast 5e skills from then on.

yes I noticed that...the purpose of HB is spamming HEAL PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! geez I don't know how many HB monks I've gotten that I haven't seen 1 heal party in the entire game

elektra_lucia · Jan 03, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

the purpose of HB is spamming HEAL PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

? ? ?

123456789101112.

Phe Belladona · Jan 03, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

HA monks are pretty bad 3 monk backlines collapse when deprived of channeling for sufficient time (usually like 2mins lol) and im not meaning r3 monks i mean pretty much every monk in there, channeling is truly the best energy management for HA, its amazing, it might just get a bad name cause of the number of bad monks that use (no not use DEPEND ON) it. HA is stuffed with crazy overdestructive builds that on alters would wipe teams who dont have channeling. and whats this "bad positioning" crap doing in HA how many teams need to build adren or even move to you to spike you??

in short channeling is zomg amazing but HA monks need it like oxygen remove it and their team will die.

Dominator1370 · Jan 03, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

in short channeling is zomg amazing but HA monks need it like oxygen remove it and their team will die.

If there's anything you need "like oxygen", it's a problem, because a good team can (and should) deprive you of it. There's really nothing out there that you can't counter in several different ways.

Of course, I'm confused, because you told me that you don't need need channeling, then told me you'd die without it. Whether or not you absolutely need it, if you use it regularly, you'll get used to having it to fall back on and have trouble without it.

Lorekeeper · Jan 03, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

its really difficult to gain a consensus on whether channeling is necessary for YOU unless you provide the context under which it will be used or not.

Gole will be a fine choice for your monks once they have become highly experienced at their jobs.. and once they are confident that they are monking for a team that knows how to mitigate dmg through defensive play... like kiting from aoe... kiting from melee... shutting down enemy offense... killing enemy offense... not pushing into choke points etc etc

however for the vast majority of teams and players out there who are not as experienced like this, channeling gives them a crutch which allows them to rush head on into a fight to the death... where callers are killing monks over and over... where defensive considerations like i listed above are not considered at all... gole backlines will not be able to function very well in this environment because they cannot keep up the same rate of healing/protting than their channeling counterparts. Gole forces you to not make any mistakes... and to play close to perfectly every match... channeling allows you to make mistakes and not suffer heavily from making them. It depends how good you think you already are... if you dont think you are very good at monking... running channeling will not really help improve your abilities very quickly... but at least you will get by and win some matches with the huge amounts of energy at your disposal. If you dont care about fame... or getting to HoH every run... and your entire team is focused on improving their standards regardless of short term success... then run gole with a good build and im pretty sure your levels of play will improve much faster than they would have while using channeling.

while channeling does breed poor players or prevent poor players from becoming great players; that is not to say that all monks who use channeling are poor. Good monks also use it... especially in HA when most of the time people just want to sit back and relax when they are monking... not having to concentrate closely to every movement of enemies dmg like you would have to do so in GvG and not having to be so careful with every cast... HA matches are faster and occur much more frequently... i dont think i could last more than 1-2 hours if i had to concentrate as hard as i had to while GvGing in every HA fight i had to monk for.

but thats just my personal opinion on the matter.

Chokutou Reiki · Jan 03, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Just spike, then your monks won't have to monk at all. In fact, put vamp gaze on the monks and run oob. :]

elektra_lucia · Jan 03, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

GVG battle is more spread out, not just because of the players but the objective too which makes monking much easier. I don't think that a HA monk will necessarily automatically rush in when he GVG's. HA warriors pick up bad habbits which is funny because they don't have channelling, they like to remind you that they have frenzy though ^_^.

Phe, play monk for one hour and see what happens when five people stand in SH. Yes the enemy may spike with deaths charge on their dervish...

Also, don't you think it's more helpful to the monk if people are spread out they can see someone changing target? Even if it's a case of them looking at a different target, wanding a different target or porting. Every bit of information helps, the more spread out you are, the much easier it is to see what is happening regardless of if they need to adrenaline spike. The enemies can channel tank less if you are more spread out too. I'm shocked that you'd say HA positioning isn't important, or imply it.

On a side note, I hate GVG only monks that come into HA. We fail at UW because we push in, they under extend and wait under the bridge. I want nasty things to happen to them.

Phe Belladona · Jan 03, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

elektra i've played monk a lot i know what channeling can do vs these aoes it can keep the 5 ppl up (assuming you have 2 monks functioning under it).

and enemy monks shouldnt be channel tanking cause you should have a mesmer on your team O__o

elektra_lucia · Jan 03, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

It may be able to keep them up but it's not really good. Rather just have the team step outside of AOE but whatever lol.

I would also prefer my mesmer to go on purely offence if my team was hell bent on standing in AOE.

Phe Belladona · Jan 03, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

some mesmers can do both :O a little enchant removal here and little interupt there, infact the synergise well inspire channeling PD eles

and if u want the center alter in cap point HoH you'll need to tank aoe til your damage spike out enough of their eles to make it easy, due to the mechanic of cap points its not always possible to just walk out of aoe but you can minimise it by spreading out on the alter but you will be getting hit by not all of it but certainly some of it

lord of shadow · Jan 03, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

yes I noticed that...the purpose of HB is spamming HEAL PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's pretty impressive that you can be this wrong while trying to agree with ensign.

wuzzman · Jan 03, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

lol there is no reason to have HB without powering Heal party, HB is flimsy even though it was buffed, you do much better with glimmer or woh. HB is for heal party, using it to just spam orison is a waste....

jaeharys targaryen · Jan 03, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

lol there is no reason to have HB without powering Heal party, HB is flimsy even though it was buffed, you do much better with glimmer or woh. HB is for heal party, using it to just spam orison is a waste....

even i know theres more than 3 skills on a bar.

Ensign · Jan 03, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Healer's Boon, Channeling/GLE, Heal Party, Heal Other/Infuse, Holy Veil, Draw Conditions, Orison/Words, Ethlight/Kiss/Seed covers just about all the setups I've seen.

It it weren't for the big Heal Party, this should absolutely be a Glimmer Monk. There aren't many teams in HA that a Glimmer Monk could keep up with though.

After watching for a bit 'balanced' teams run a lot of raw defense even on a 2 Monk backline, and when they play they babysit the Healer's Boon Monk with Stability, maintained block, etc, so he can channeltank without exploding. I can understand doing things that way even if I don't agree with it.

elektra_lucia · Jan 03, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Your post is written in a semi serious way. For someone new it might not be obvious and they might end up running glimmer...

Please write <sarcasm> at the end? lol.

What Now · Jan 03, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

I got into GvG a while before HA and I run Mo/A with return. I tend to stay on bridges or under them depending where the fighting is and return away if they run around to me. I return out of aoe and also from thumpers I know will soon kd and daze me. Energy management is as much of a personal skill than an ingame one. I think signet of rejuv IS my emanagement and I usually have no problem with it.

Tried channeling before and yes and no. Yes it's great and you can monk until sunday, but no in the sense against caster spikes and such you actually have to tank and make yourself a prime target for minimal energy return.

I am also a supporter of infuse health. Sorry for the "uber prot" monks but been there tried that.

Have you ever preproted against a GOOD spike team? A step before the target they simply tab and get the nearest one that you didn't prot. So in some cases I believe infuse is necessary while in others layered defense can probably cover it all.

I'm a rank 3 hero, took a few days to get. Have over a year of gvg experience though. So I'm not as sure as HA as I would be of GvG sorry.

elektra_lucia · Jan 03, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Have you ever preproted against a GOOD spike team? A step before the target they simply tab and get the nearest one

Quote:

Tried channeling before and yes and no. Yes it's great and you can monk until sunday, but no in the sense against caster spikes and such you actually have to tank and make yourself a prime target for minimal energy return.

?

um.......

Div · Jan 04, 2008, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

its really difficult to gain a consensus on whether channeling is necessary for YOU unless you provide the context under which it will be used or not.

Gole will be a fine choice for your monks once they have become highly experienced at their jobs.. and once they are confident that they are monking for a team that knows how to mitigate dmg through defensive play... like kiting from aoe... kiting from melee... shutting down enemy offense... killing enemy offense... not pushing into choke points etc etc

however for the vast majority of teams and players out there who are not as experienced like this, channeling gives them a crutch which allows them to rush head on into a fight to the death... where callers are killing monks over and over... where defensive considerations like i listed above are not considered at all... gole backlines will not be able to function very well in this environment because they cannot keep up the same rate of healing/protting than their channeling counterparts. Gole forces you to not make any mistakes... and to play close to perfectly every match... channeling allows you to make mistakes and not suffer heavily from making them. It depends how good you think you already are... if you dont think you are very good at monking... running channeling will not really help improve your abilities very quickly... but at least you will get by and win some matches with the huge amounts of energy at your disposal. If you dont care about fame... or getting to HoH every run... and your entire team is focused on improving their standards regardless of short term success... then run gole with a good build and im pretty sure your levels of play will improve much faster than they would have while using channeling.

while channeling does breed poor players or prevent poor players from becoming great players; that is not to say that all monks who use channeling are poor. Good monks also use it... especially in HA when most of the time people just want to sit back and relax when they are monking... not having to concentrate closely to every movement of enemies dmg like you would have to do so in GvG and not having to be so careful with every cast... HA matches are faster and occur much more frequently... i dont think i could last more than 1-2 hours if i had to concentrate as hard as i had to while GvGing in every HA fight i had to monk for.

but thats just my personal opinion on the matter.

I think this fairly nicely sums up the debate on channeling. Only minor change is that I'm more relaxed monking with GoLE than channeling :P

Ensign · Jan 04, 2008, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Your post is written in a semi serious way. For someone new it might not be obvious and they might end up running glimmer...

If you aren't making use of Heal Party under Healer's Boon, you would be better off running Glimmer of Light. I'm 100% serious and, if you take a critical look at the skills, I don't think there's much to argue about. Healer's Boon is to make Heal Party a great skill, not to turn Orison into a bad Glimmer.

elektra_lucia · Jan 04, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

I still hope you're being sarcastic.

You haven't mentioned that WoH is perfectly viable (can run prot spirit nicely too).

Dwayna with HB.
Fast cast seed with HB.
Other heals with HB xD. Anyway my argument was not just about the heal party but the fact you said it should absolutely be a glimmer monk:

Quote:

It it weren't for the big Heal Party, this should absolutely be a Glimmer Monk. There aren't many teams in HA that a Glimmer Monk could keep up with though.

See?

Quote:

some mesmers can do both :O a little enchant removal here and little interupt there, infact the synergise well inspire channeling PD eles

and if u want the center alter in cap point HoH you'll need to tank aoe til your damage spike out enough of their eles to make it easy, due to the mechanic of cap points its not always possible to just walk out of aoe but you can minimise it by spreading out on the alter but you will be getting hit by not all of it but certainly some of it

Of course, but if my whole team feels like tanks I'd rather mesmers go purely on the offence. Tanking HoH is great, if you can get there. Which will be a problem if peoples positioning sucks and they lose in UW or such.