Curse

ensoriki · Dec 23, 2007, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaen

But on a slightly more appropriate note, I have to ask, does any other MMO out there have such an indepth design for keeping people alive? In my experience, it's mostly been "make red bars go up." Is GW the only MMO to have something like pre-protting?

Some do, but to a lesser extent actually.
Oh wait MMO?
Okay a few do, but to a lesser extent.

wuzzman · Dec 23, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39

there are 4 ways mmo's deal with actually keeping people alive
1. Push red bar up with gigantic heal skill that recovers 1 million health
2. Use lock spell that renders the target and 50 other guys useless for 100 minutes
3. Use unstrippable buff that last 100 minutes and prevents 1 million points of damage
4. Spam potions

erk · Dec 24, 2007, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Perhaps they are just coasting, they may have enough extra money that they do not need to put out a campaign and they can afford to um "abandon" gw1.

I think they have to put effort into sales. PvP is just one area.

NCsoft's share price has fallen by more than 30 percent since October, despite ``Tabula Rasa's'' launch in November. - http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...123_15948.html

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=036570.KS

Riotgear · Dec 24, 2007, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaen

But on a slightly more appropriate note, I have to ask, does any other MMO out there have such an indepth design for keeping people alive? In my experience, it's mostly been "make red bars go up." Is GW the only MMO to have something like pre-protting?

Guild Wars is much more oriented around powerful buff and debuff effects than most.

The only game that really compares (or compared) to GW PvP-wise was DAOC.

However, that's not to say the handling of GW has been mistake-free, and it can be made better if those mistakes are identified and addressed.

red orc · Dec 24, 2007, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Games like Warhammer, Fury, and other shit will draw that player base at first when GW2 comes out until they get tired of that those games and buy GW2 anyway.

Warhammer is not balanced PVP. Its PVE with PVP as sugar coating. No GW PVPer will bother getting there. It will atract WOW PVPers.

Fury failed misserably. It was buggy as hell with huge performance problems and turned out to be gear oriented PVP where you had to constantly pay the developers for good gear or grind your ass for it. It also has a terrible newb experience causing all ppl to run away from it. They just recreated the business model (third time in the last 3 months) to try to attract new players, but so far it failed.

Gigashadow · Dec 24, 2007, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Plenty of GW PvPers will go to Warhammer because it's something different from GW, which will be feeling pretty damn stale by mid 2008.

wuzzman · Dec 24, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

Warhammer is not balanced PVP. Its PVE with PVP as sugar coating. No GW PVPer will bother getting there. It will atract WOW PVPers.

Fury failed misserably. It was buggy as hell with huge performance problems and turned out to be gear oriented PVP where you had to constantly pay the developers for good gear or grind your ass for it. It also has a terrible newb experience causing all ppl to run away from it. They just recreated the business model (third time in the last 3 months) to try to attract new players, but so far it failed.

that doesn't stop pvp'ers from migrating in an attempt to not buy guild wars 2. In which case does Anet really has to bother to attract a pvp crowd? no. Will it have a pvp crowd anyway? Defiantly, it will remain the bad boy on the block as far as rpg gaming is concerned for pvp.

red orc · Dec 25, 2007, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

that doesn't stop pvp'ers from migrating in an attempt to not buy guild wars 2. In which case does Anet really has to bother to attract a pvp crowd? no. Will it have a pvp crowd anyway? Defiantly, it will remain the bad boy on the block as far as rpg gaming is concerned for pvp.

Right now, there are tons of PVE games coming out and none of them offers balanced PVP game. The only one that promise such a thing is GW2 and it is 2 years down the road. When will game developers consider what you called "the bad kid on the block" a target market ?
What other games are currently developed that have it ?

AlexGuildDrama · Dec 25, 2007, 08:18 AM // 08:18

The AT's were a huge improvement compared to nothing at all. With the lack of large sums of cold hard cash as a prize, there are no incentives for hermit-like competitive play. The amount of dedication and etc are too complicated to deal with to make it worth it for most players. However, I am looking forward to the gift cards. Multiple light-up mousepads and thumb drives are not as cool.

Things that may be done to improve tournaments:

- Other forms of tournaments. Polymock, dragon arena, rollerbeetle racing and etc. There are so many mini-games in Guild Wars that many different people enjoy. It would attract more PvPing.

- Have them more often. They are automatic, why not have them automatically all day? It would de-complicate scheduling for organized players.

- Tie-breakers for hero battles, because many people tie their way up the brackets. A better tie-breaker than guild lord health for GvG, (such as party morale, party health, death counts, and etc.)

- Recalculate unnecessary rounds after forfeits. They prolong the tournament, which is an inconvenience.

wuzzman · Dec 25, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

Right now, there are tons of PVE games coming out and none of them offers balanced PVP game. The only one that promise such a thing is GW2 and it is 2 years down the road. When will game developers consider what you called "the bad kid on the block" a target market ?
What other games are currently developed that have it ?

does anet need to market their game to a crowd that really has very few options besides playing the next fps and rts? no. And I was saying "the bad kid on the block" is the guild wars franchise. Game developers really aren't going to market for pvp'ers because right now that will come at the expense of an even larger pve playerbase that needs just as much carebear attention as the unprofitable(in comparison to pve) pvp market. You got Guild Wars that was out and instead of displaying a pvp community that could be remotely worth tailoring your game for, you have maybe thousands of dollars of PR and development time going down the drain while still having to get around to what ever useless shit pve'ers are complaining about.

erk · Dec 26, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexGuildDrama

The AT's were a huge improvement compared to nothing at all. With the lack of large sums of cold hard cash as a prize, there are no incentives for hermit-like competitive play. The amount of dedication and etc are too complicated to deal with to make it worth it for most players. However, I am looking forward to the gift cards. Multiple light-up mousepads and thumb drives are not as cool.

No they weren't since their introduction there has been a clear decrease in GvG activity, for proof look at the activity on the ladder, when the last points were achieved, how many guilds have qualifier points etc. The AT's represent a small subset of GvG players that's all, they are NOT widely popular. Your fixation on the rewards is a distraction of their primary goal failure to get more PvP activity = more sales.

AlexGuildDrama · Dec 26, 2007, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

No they weren't since their introduction there has been a clear decrease in GvG activity, for proof look at the activity on the ladder, when the last points were achieved, how many guilds have qualifier points etc. The AT's represent a small subset of GvG players that's all, they are NOT widely popular. Your fixation on the rewards is a distraction of their primary goal failure to get more PvP activity = more sales.

I agree that GvG activity is decreasing, but in my opinion I believe without the ATs, there would be even less activity. There are too many obvious things to factor in to pin it entirely on the ATs.

I could imagine though that since anet is a brand new company, they are forced to practice frugal business tactics, because even free MMOs host their own forums and they can't afford to, but in return we get other things that other MMOs don't have.

I wish they wouldn't withdraw all their resources to develop Guild Wars 2, but unfortunately there aren't better PvP games out there, so they are able to afford to do so, because people will still buy Guild Wars 2, and all their other expansions are proof that people will.

Hopefully Guild Wars 2 will address all the obvious things they could of added to Guild Wars 1 that would of made it a million times better. If not, I'm sure people will catch on, and the expansion for Guild Wars 2 would flop in sales.

I think that explains why there are so many outraged players in the PvP community, because there aren't better games out there to compete, so people feel somewhat extorted to stick with Guild Wars. Who knows, maybe there will be developers that branch off and start their own company to make something better in the very same way anet branched off from bnet.

Edit:
Also I'd like to add that nc's earnings do not reflects anet's earnings. After anet earns enough networth to be on their own, they will be, and could possibly squash nc or buy them up for their distribution resources.

Operations · Jan 05, 2008, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

Plenty of GW PvPers will go to Warhammer because it's something different from GW, which will be feeling pretty damn stale by mid 2008.

It's feeling stale now...

If they wanted to do big changes to the game, even use it to test ideas for part 2 (wild attribute changes I'm talking) now might be the time.

Sinful Doom · Jan 05, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operations

It's feeling stale now...

If they wanted to do big changes to the game, even use it to test ideas for part 2 (wild attribute changes I'm talking) now might be the time.

Please let GW die slowly over time, not in a fiery plane crash with ridiculous buffs to skills and attributes.

Kissable Krissy · Jan 05, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

There is a lot that guild wars could do to enhance pvp play without it dying in a fiery plane crash. Giving little previews to their current community would be a start. You could actually redo some of the HA maps, add new guild halls, change winning objectives for HA, or change some skills around.

wuzzman · Jan 05, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

you want to fix pvp? you really really want to fix pvp? No seriously don't even read past this last word if you don't want to fix pvp. Make. HA. Puggable. problem solved.

*general reaction from average forum posting pvp'er*
-What? an HA that is puggable? you mean players can actually enjoy high-end pvp? What? Players won't keep playing a game that can't be pugged? Unbelievable! I just find that unacceptable! Where is my map mechanics that I don't even like after 2 weeks. Where is my new guild hall that no one wants to play in. Where is that huge skill balance that ushers in an even shittier meta then the one before? I mean WE GOTTA HAVE THAT OR GUILD WARS CAN"T BE FIXED!! What can casual players do for this game?! WHo the hell care about pugs anyway!?

Kissable Krissy · Jan 05, 2008, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Well, I pug quite a bit. I dont really have that much of a problem with pugging. If you dont like the pug you're with, then leave the pug. Its not that much of a big deal, but I do understand where people dislike pugs because 99% of them suck.

Riotgear · Jan 06, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

you want to fix pvp? you really really want to fix pvp? No seriously don't even read past this last word if you don't want to fix pvp. Make. HA. Puggable. problem solved.

*general reaction from average forum posting pvp'er*
-What? an HA that is puggable? you mean players can actually enjoy high-end pvp? What? Players won't keep playing a game that can't be pugged? Unbelievable! I just find that unacceptable! Where is my map mechanics that I don't even like after 2 weeks. Where is my new guild hall that no one wants to play in. Where is that huge skill balance that ushers in an even shittier meta then the one before? I mean WE GOTTA HAVE THAT OR GUILD WARS CAN"T BE FIXED!! What can casual players do for this game?! WHo the hell care about pugs anyway!?

That could have been solved long ago by making HA bracketed by rank. The playerbase is spread too thin for that to be beneficial now.

The PvP Access Kit could also use some significant promotion. $20 for the PvP component is a much more reasonable offer for players interested in trying the PvP portion of the game than fronting many times that for the boxed campaigns.

Relambrien · Jan 06, 2008, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

you want to fix pvp? you really really want to fix pvp? No seriously don't even read past this last word if you don't want to fix pvp. Make. HA. Puggable. problem solved.

You'll have to explain why making HA puggable solves the problem.

PS: I'm staying out of this debate, just helping it along.

red orc · Jan 06, 2008, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relambrien

You'll have to explain why making HA puggable solves the problem.

PS: I'm staying out of this debate, just helping it along.

Cause then you will tap into the huge PVE player base that will go farming for shiny emotes rather than 55monk farming. Along the way you will create a huge new pvp base for better HA and GVG. Once you got that, you have a huge value in the player base, that can be used to enhance the game in so many ways.