Curse

6am3 Fana71c · Jan 08, 2008, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Hello...
I'm curious about two things. I recently played HA with PuG and it happened that we get high ranked monk to join us. He was good, at least better then rest of us (unranked scrubs :P ), and he gave some good suggestions to party.
Anyway...I was playing HB, and he told me I should just channel tank. Since he was higher rank, I listened, and yes, it worked out ok (mostly because he was taking care of me when I overextend, but other unranked monks usually don't), but this tactic seems "wrong" to me. Basicly it puts you to crap positioning 24/7, and somewhat prevents you from having good view on battlefield. What are your opinions about this?

And, also, another thing. Is it possible to advance in HA (more in terms of skill then in rank) playing only with PuGs? I don't want to leave my guild for HA one, and I'm still unranked.

(P.S. I know Channeling thread was closed not long ago, so please, no flaming here. I just asked simple questions, and I'm hoping I'll get straight answers from more experienced people).

17eIvIoN · Jan 08, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

well channelling is very useful and if ur playing in a 3 man monk team it'll be more effective, one thing is ur gonna be a target irrespective of who you play with and just getting a good friends list is a good place to start.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jan 08, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Yes it's always possible to become better at something the more you do it. The majority of people who used to or still do HA, pugged and more often than not, built themselves a nice friends list. Eventually you should have a list of guys like your new monk friend, who are higher ranked and may bring you along in their groups, you'll most likely end up learning a few more things that way.

Elrodien · Jan 08, 2008, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Using channeling in HA as a monk does fly in the face of everything u learned about monking and really, it shows just how wrong HA is when monks run to the front and tank 4 wolves + owners. But if it works, roll with it - just don't apply the same ideas to monking anywhere else.

As for advancing in skill, pugging won't help overly much I'm afraid. Get to know the people you pug with, form teams with them - at least that way u can stay in your current guild and have a reasonable chance to play HA when you want to.

elektra_lucia · Jan 08, 2008, 03:27 PM // 15:27

This boils down to opinion I think. Perhaps I am wrong... So I will just give my stance on it but don't take it as correct or wrong =P.

Channelling

Channel tanking as a -prot- monk is important (I know you are asking about healing, I will get on to that later). I would say that as a prot monk I cast more than when I'm a heal monk. Most spikes and pressure can be protted, I tend to find that if at times you some what over prot. It gives the team a sense of security which can make them be more aggressive. The aggression can mean that you take less damage which makes up for the loss of energy. If you channel tank, you can get away with this.

Supposing you're running two warriors, few eles, mes or something and some monks (just to represent different armours). If one warrior gets spiteful spirit on him, you can use something like SoA. Providing he does not attack near team it is not really a problem for him to keep whacking at things.

The thing is, dependant on how much energy you are churning out. Is relevant to how much you should be channel tanking. Channel tanking should NOT promote bad play UNLESS you ALWAYS rush in. Where experience comes in is that you will know how much to channel tank.

When you see a group, you should automatically know how much energy you will churn out. Providing you have a rough idea of the builds. Also, if the prot monk is channel tanking and you are channel tanking, there's a likely case that you can be hit by AoE. From experience the heal monk should NOT channel tank as much as the prot monk. If your energy goes really bad, then perhaps yeah... The point about spiteful spirit is that if SoA has been wasted on the healer, perhaps the warrior won't get to do so much damage... Bad example perhaps because quite frankly providing the warrior is not near team (which he won't be if you don't channel tank all the time

) he should be able to hit through Spiteful Spirit anyway.

The point of where you gain most from channelling (how many people are around you) also changes, which also means that you will still be kiting some what. By being in their back-line, you also can promote them balling up which can actually help you. Would I recommend this vs IWAY? No.

Also you have to think, stay far away from the enemy. Prot monk can keep the warriors clean. Warriors do more damage. You get hit less, you have to heal less, you have more energy. Simple concept...

Also, if you are being RC'd a lot, or even if the prot monk is spamming any spell on you. While he is doing this, he is not protting something else. Which means they may take more damage, they need more healing or perhaps they won't do as much damage and the battle will go on for longer.

So the bottom line is, it depends on how much energy you use, how much you over or under heal. What you face. What it will do to effect the warriors (if the prot monk can't cast). How many monks are in the team (two or three).

Quote:

I was playing HB, and he told me I should just channel tank. Since he was higher rank, I listened, and yes, it worked out ok

The problem in this example is not knowing the outcome of if you had not of channel tanked and people kited properly. Note: People. You have more people on your team, if you are all kiting properly, you won't have to channel tank so much.

Quote:

And, also, another thing. Is it possible to advance in HA

Skill

This is where my strong opinions come out I guess... I believe whether it's HA, GVG, Guildwars, Counterstrike. Skill is like this:

Talent. The thing with talent is it can make you learn quicker, or it can simply give you an edge someone else won't ever have.

Drive I think that someone with incredible drive will improve even if they are not talented. This drive is a burning desire to be good, or simply a casual player. You could be a nerd, or someone with a life and just a competitive streak.

Practice and what you practice You can practice the wrong builds, with the wrong people, in the wrong maps, in the wrong situations. If you have been given bad advice it will influence how you improve. If you are someone who falls for this bad advice, it can influence you too. In my opinion, if you are pushed a lot (which you will be with a bad team) you can essentially learn faster. The problem is that it might effect how you play. If you are pressured to the point you do not play well at all. Then playing on a bad team could cripple your success. However, playing on a bad team could also make you feel relaxed. Being relaxed can make you play better.

Experience If you keep monking in HA you will just get used to certain things and teams without thinking too much. This is the same if you play on a good or bad team (pug or guild). The problem is that if you only win at UW you may not face the better teams so often and thus limit your ability.

Who you play with If you're with good people who tell you of your mistakes (which a guild might do) then yes you may improve a lot faster. The speed of which you improve will differ, but not necessarily the player you will be when you get near the peak of your skill level.

Knowing opponent If you know the enemy is an Icy Vein spike and you get the concept of what to do. A bad team really won't effect you. You'll still learn of what to do sooner or later. Icy Vein spike being an example... If you prot vs IWAY maybe you will guardian more with a bad team, but you will still grasp the concept.

Personality

If you want to be good, you will. Regardless of who you play with.
If you want to learn, you will.
If you're a player who crumbles under losing, crumbles under people shouting at you, or improves when people rage, improve when you lose: This will effect you and how you improve.
I found that with FPS when I was losing I'd get such a mad adrenaline rush that it almost paid off to be losing at the start. Mouse would feel weightless etc. Perhaps by being pressured in guild wars it will help. Keep in mind that the brain can only concentrate for a peak of like 15 minutes. You will improve most while concentrating but if you are being hammered so much that concentrating begins to be hard (due to the team making so many mistakes) this will hurt your performance and potential.

Some of it simply depends on the person who you are. If you like relaxed environment and can't improve when people all act like dicks, then maybe pugging isn't for you; however, don't think the average guild in HA will be much different. If you would of told me two years ago that some bad people would be holding Halls all the time when their monks don't even know how to weapon switch correctly and the offence spike monks that have two mesmers on them I'd laugh in your face. This is sadly some of what the best of HA is.

Quote:

I don't want to leave my guild for HA one

Then don't, and no need to think about the what if in my opinion.

Just find a guild you like and perhaps play with them a bit (not join them). Grass is green on both sides then.

I don't think I'm a great player. I do think I could be if I could be bothered to push myself to improve... So don't think that I must be wrong because I'm not a great player. I think I understand most things and how to achieve whatever. I am just lazy =P.

6am3 Fana71c · Jan 08, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Alright well first of all, thanks for your effort to type all that.
Now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

I would say that as a prot monk I cast more than when I'm a heal monk.

Yes, I agree. Even tho I was playing HB (which has Heal Party that costs 15 energy, and I was using it offten) I found myself less in need of energy then when I was RC'ing. I simply love to overprot and it usually costs me with energy depleted too fast, so I need to channel tank more offten. It just feels wierd to do it because it is in conflict with what I previously learned about monking (positioning mainly). And if I watch observer, usually all monks just channel tank (both RC and HB).

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

When you see a group, you should automatically know how much energy you will churn out.

You are probably refering to IWAY? Thing is, if I just channel tank there (which seems a logical thing to do, with all the pets and whatnot) I will get d-choped and Fear Me'd to death, no? I understand your point, but my automatic reaction as a monk is to kite, which results in less benefit from channeling >< And one benefit on not channel tanking is that you can prekite and kite normally, and hopefully make their frontline overextend to your backline too much, resulting in easy pwn?

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

So the bottom line is, it depends on how much energy you use, how much you over or under heal. What you face. What it will do to effect the warriors (if the prot monk can't cast). How many monks are in the team (two or three).

Hence this thread, or one part of it at least. I was told (by that higher ranked player) that I should just channel tank all the time, from Zaishen untill cows come home. I guess it's easy way out, you get lots of energy, and I sliped trough because he was watching my ass. But is this tactic recommended?

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

If you're a player who crumbles under losing, crumbles under people shouting at you, or improves when people rage, improve when you lose: This will effect you and how you improve.

I usually tend to improve when I'm playing with bad teams, or when people shout at me. If they are bad, they force me to be better then usually to compensate their bad output. However, the fact that they are bad doesn't help for winning games (that, and the fact I'm really picky when it comes to builds, I usually just play balance). But also I improve when we have some higher ranked player so I can pick up few tricks from him/her. However I don't want to play with higher ranked people because they will probably do all the job, and my mistakes will probably slip unnoticed (which is bad in a long run). Same goes with friends, someone mentioned I should put that higher ranked people on friends list. I think that's lame. They earned their rank and prolly join my pug because they were bored. I don't really have right to demand anything from them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Just find a guild you like and perhaps play with them a bit (not join them).

My guild is very small, made out of people who know each other. They don't PvP, and since I'm unranked, I have problems finding people who know what they are doing AND want to play with me regulary. That's why I asked, is PuGing in HA viable on long run? Or I'm doomed without HA guild?

elektra_lucia · Jan 08, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Changeling isn't always good... The bit about churning energy, when I said group I just mean party. If you face IV spike you should know how much you'll spirit bond before you engage into battle. If you face loads of ele's with AOE then it might make sense to hang back in the beginning, tank later on. It really does depend on the builds you face and how much damage your team takes or will take. I say spiritbond, for heal it could be infuse or what not. That's another thing, good prot monk will slow up you learning as an infuser as 90% of spikes now are prottable.

You're not doomed without a guild. More likely to be doomed with one. HA guilds = Drama. Drama spreads. Guilds are also more likely to be ganked. Easier to be recognized.

I made a thread on the low/high rank business so don't want to ruin your thread but, maybe befriending people isn't too bad if they enjoy their time in the group and you don't just leech off them I guess... Although I was some what anti low rank groups, I'm more so anti high rank groups. They don't improve. So I think in a couple of weeks I won't be playing in groups higher than rank 8 or so, lol (no joke).

Essentially the people were wrong for most maps (for HoH then channel tanking is essential due to the nature of the game and how many enemies there are) but I see the logic in what they said. They probably wanted to make sure that in their eyes, a new player, would have lots of energy and they make up for it by protting...

You really just want to feel comfortable with your energy. If red bars are always stable then why channel tank?

It's also a case of judging what could happen. Like, sometimes I don't go into high set and will happily let someone die because of it. Sometimes I'll go into high set, spam heal parties, die on low, and then res with nice energy. If I think that going in high set will prohibit me to heal two other people. Then saving one to let two die isn't good... My weapon switches are good such that the -2 pips is like having 4 pips of energy regen but still there is a delay between changing weapons.

If channelling means I'll perhaps die but save 6 people. Then that isn't bad.

They should make a recording function in guildwars that enables the in game engine to play back things. It would be so helpful. I hate using fraps.

Friend list is the key as everyone will always say but don't assume that everyone wants to be told things too. Friend list comes from pugging mostly (in the beginning). One thing I learnt (I'm still guilty of making the same mistake) even if you make a point. You can be right, you can say it calmly or aggressively, but it can annoy people. Like after battle if you criticize someone for not interrupting correctly... So long as there is one more person than you that does not agree, your argument is as good as lost. You will find it harder to get groups because people will see snippets of the argument and see you as bad. You can be the nicest of person and still it can go wrong. So just try to keep your thoughts to yourself I guess and make friends. It sounds hypocritical because I am often one to criticize but whatever.

Killed u man · Jan 08, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Why does channeltanking = tanking enemy team?

I played monk enough (R 12 atm, so don't say I have no clue what I'm talking about), to realize that you can "channeltank" WITHOUT taking extra damage...

Look at it like this: If the thumpers are going to be on you when backlining, they will also be on you when frontlining (There barely is any "lines" in HA tough). When casters want to spam Savannah Heat on you, well there ain't much kiting that will help you against that.

My point simply is, wether you channeltank or not, you WILL take damage as a monk. And common sense tells us that 100 damage in the middle of their team is exactly the same as 100 damage in the middle of your team...

In GvG it's a whole different game. Staying in the back gets rewarded with actually taking less damage, lower chance of being target of mesmer hexes etc... (Cuz noone wants to overextend, cuz Eviscerate hurts baaaaad)

I can only hope you will learn how to use channeling, otherwise you won't stand a chance against decent teams, IN HA that is. (Unless your name is Dark Alley, and you play during dead hours with glyph)

elektra_lucia · Jan 08, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Why does channeltanking = tanking enemy team?

I played monk enough (R 12 atm, so don't say I have no clue what I'm talking about), to realize that you can "channeltank" WITHOUT taking extra damage...

Look at it like this: If the thumpers are going to be on you when backlining, they will also be on you when frontlining (There barely is any "lines" in HA tough). When casters want to spam Savannah Heat on you, well there ain't much kiting that will help you against that.

My point simply is, wether you channeltank or not, you WILL take damage as a monk. And common sense tells us that 100 damage in the middle of their team is exactly the same as 100 damage in the middle of your team...

In GvG it's a whole different game. Staying in the back gets rewarded with actually taking less damage, lower chance of being target of mesmer hexes etc... (Cuz noone wants to overextend, cuz Eviscerate hurts baaaaad)

I can only hope you will learn how to use channeling, otherwise you won't stand a chance against decent teams, IN HA that is. (Unless your name is Dark Alley, and you play during dead hours with glyph)
Killed u man is online now Report Bad Post Reply With Quote

If you're all balled up channel tanking you could get body blocked and when you want to escape you can't.

If both monks are channel tanking and your warrior is trying to hit their backline too, it's forcing the team into bad positioning. Sure lines barely exist in HA but you don't have to make it worse...

There is a lot of AoE spells, of course some HA maps require you to ball up but by channel tanking all of the time you will just take more damage than you need too.

Quote:

My point simply is, wether you channeltank or not, you WILL take damage as a monk. And common sense tells us that 100 damage in the middle of their team is exactly the same as 100 damage in the middle of your team...

Look up ancestors rage? Savannah Heat? Splinter weapon? Fear me? Extremely common in HA at the moment.

Quote:

I played monk enough (R 12 atm, so don't say I have no clue what I'm talking about), to realize that you can "channeltank" WITHOUT taking extra damage...

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Killed u man · Jan 08, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

If you're all balled up channel tanking you could get body blocked and when you want to escape you can't.

I'm pretty sure you're referring to capture points here. Otherwise I don't see why you would want to ball up? In capture points, it's still the same principle, seeing how everyone MUST get on the alter, unless you want to loose it.
So still, same deal, channeling > Gole, as it allowes you to spam Heal Party indefinatly.
I didn't get the point of this remark, are u saying that GoLe can somehow de-bodyblock you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

If both monks are channel tanking and your warrior is trying to hit their backline too, it's forcing the team into bad positioning. Sure lines barely exist in HA but you don't have to make it worse...

There is nearly NO positioning in HA. Only in the 4 1v1 matches on the way to HoH, there is some positioning involved. And still, you missed my point. HA is too fast-paced for it to matter. It's nearly impossible to overextend as a warrior, seeing the maps are usually not even Radar-range, and the actual battle-grounds on average about the size of 4 wards next to eachother. (2x2)
So can u please explain this "bad positioning" which I never heard of, after 2 years of HA...

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

There is a lot of AoE spells, of course some HA maps require you to ball up but by channel tanking all of the time you will just take more damage than you need to..

Once again, these maps are obviously capture points... So ONCE again, I don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying that playing a GoLe (I assume that's your alternative to Channeling) magicly reduces damage taking when U HAVE to ball up. Mark the capitals on HAVE, because you are forced doing so. Remember, this is NOT channeling forcing you to ball up, it's the simple fact that you need to stay on the altar to hold/cap it...
And once again, here also applies same rule: channeling will allows you to spam HP indefinatly, whilst with GoLE, you will be empty after 3-4 HP's...

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Look up ancestors rage? Savannah Heat? Splinter weapon? Extremely common in HA at the moment.

Last time I checked, AR did 137 lightening damage in the middle of their time, as did it when I was in the back of my team o.0...
Once again, I fail to grasp the idea behind this statement? Are you saying you will magicly "avoid" these spells when in the back? Cuz if so, once again: HA promotes balling up. And even if it didn't, if these spells don't go on you, they will simply go on a different party member, who will need as much healing as you will. With the only different that you won't be there to leech of the energy from enemies... Also, AR and splinter weapon is used on 2 people: Melee and paramorrons.
So once again, I have yet to see a warrior who WON'T follow you no matter where you go, seeing as how the HA battle fields are usually the size of 2x2 wards... For a paragon, it barely matters where you are.
Only in UW you have slight advantage of being a Glyph monk, you can hide behind walls from para's and rangers...

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Obviously not, thats why You're so wrong...

Everytime I used "once again" is everytime I was thinking:"Why do I feel like I'm explaining it to a monkey?"

TaCktiX · Jan 08, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

To answer the first question, I don't do channeling tanking strictly speaking. I prefer to call it channel kiting. I will kite past a good bit of the other team, weaving through players and likely getting that pesky warrior or thumper hung up. In the middle of that, cast and get a +5, +6 hit of Channeling. If I'm doing great on energy I have a tendency to leave the fray altogether, and cast from the outside of the fight, then come back in when my energy's lower. I'll let someone else back me up on this: but I think that a moving monk is always more capable of getting good Channeling hits while suffering less damage.

As for skill, if you critique yourself hard, or have someone critiquing you, you'll get better. My main frustration right now is I'll get in a R6 balanced group, and the most we'll get all night is 2 fame, because we'll never get a team dynamic going.

6am3 Fana71c · Jan 08, 2008, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Ok tnx for all answers, it helps

Keep 'em comming if you have something more to add, but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Oi, elektra! /spank
Quit trollin' mah threadz! :P

elektra_lucia · Jan 08, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

I'm pretty sure you're referring to capture points here. Otherwise I don't see why you would want to ball up? In capture points, it's still the same principle, seeing how everyone MUST get on the alter, unless you want to loose it.
So still, same deal, channeling > Gole, as it allowes you to spam Heal Party indefinatly.
I didn't get the point of this remark, are u saying that GoLe can somehow de-bodyblock you?

I think you should stop replying to me. I never said bring GoLE. I was simply stating channel tanking isn't always good. If you're in their backline and your warriors want to hit their midline or backline, there will be a ball up sooner or later.

Quote:

There is nearly NO positioning in HA. Only in the 4 1v1 matches on the way to HoH, there is some positioning involved. And still, you missed my point. HA is too fast-paced for it to matter. It's nearly impossible to overextend as a warrior, seeing the maps are usually not even Radar-range, and the actual battle-grounds on average about the size of 4 wards next to eachother. (2x2)
So can u please explain this "bad positioning" which I never heard of, after 2 years of HA...

Go to temple of balthazar and look at the different targets. Adjacent, area, etc.

Quote:

Once again, these maps are obviously capture points... So ONCE again, I don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying that playing a GoLe (I assume that's your alternative to Channeling) magicly reduces damage taking when U HAVE to ball up. Mark the capitals on HAVE, because you are forced doing so. Remember, this is NOT channeling forcing you to ball up, it's the simple fact that you need to stay on the altar to hold/cap it...
And once again, here also applies same rule: channeling will allows you to spam HP indefinatly, whilst with GoLE, you will be empty after 3-4 HP's...

I'm simply demonstrating that channel tanking isn't good all the time. I'm not saying, when you aren't channel tanking you should hack into the game and bring GoLE or so... I'm saying, channel tanking can be good at times...

Quote:

Last time I checked, AR did 137 lightening damage in the middle of their time, as did it when I was in the back of my team o.0...

Straw man fallacy. I wasn't talking about the damage, I was demonstrating how it can hurt people who ball up...

Quote:

Once again, I fail to grasp the idea behind this statement? Are you saying you will magicly "avoid" these spells when in the back? Cuz if so, once again: HA promotes balling up. And even if it didn't, if these spells don't go on you, they will simply go on a different party member, who will need as much healing as you will.

Because every class has the same armour as a heal monk right?

Quote:

lso, AR and splinter weapon is used on 2 people: Melee and paramorrons.
So once again, I have yet to see a warrior who WON'T follow you no matter where you go, seeing as how the HA battle fields are usually the size of 2x2 wards...

So if you're in their backline... The other monk is in their backline... Your warrior is in their backline... Hi?

Quote:

Everytime I used "once again" is everytime I was thinking:"Why do I feel like I'm explaining it to a monkey?"

And I feel like I'm talking to an ant.

Quote:

Oi, elektra! /spank
Quit trollin' mah threadz! :P

Either that or people fall for what he has to say. Which I assure you, is utter nonsense.

TheHaxor · Jan 08, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c

Anyway...I was playing HB, and he told me I should just channel tank. Since he was higher rank, I listened, and yes, it worked out ok (mostly because he was taking care of me when I overextend, but other unranked monks usually don't), but this tactic seems "wrong" to me. Basicly it puts you to crap positioning 24/7, and somewhat prevents you from having good view on battlefield. What are your opinions about this?

I find that I really don't like channel tanking on an HB bar. The entire point to that bar is to maximize the effectiveness of heal party, not spam 5 energy heals. Once you start getting low on a channeling bar, it tends to be difficult to keep spitting out the heal parties. I actually found glyph more effective for that specific bar because it enabled me to continue to crank out Heal Party when I started to get low. Glyph --> Heal Other was also effective against spike teams since it allowed me to hide a little bit while keeping my energy up.

Channeling is vastly superior on 3 way maps (including halls) because there tends to be a lot of people around you. You should still be able to be effective on those maps with glyph on that bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c

And, also, another thing. Is it possible to advance in HA (more in terms of skill then in rank) playing only with PuGs? I don't want to leave my guild for HA one, and I'm still unranked.

Yes it is. I can speak from experience. As you play bars/characters more and more, you will start to figure out how to play them more effectively. You will figure out the best time to use skills, what skill to use in what situation to get the most out of it, counters to common HA team builds, map tactics, etc.

It's basically trial and error.

Edwards · Jan 09, 2008, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Regardless of whether or not you like channelling, you should run it when you're r0 looking for a PUG, because people at that level know that channelling is the meta, and will want to stick with that, rather than take the word of somebody who's r0 that GoLE is better. Low ranked groups usually want to stick to what they know works so that they can earn a few fame and stop being low ranked. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, but I am saying that this is a fact.

I honestly am a terrible monk, so my opinion counts for very little, but from what I've seen in game, and what I've read here, channel tanking should be something you do when you're low on energy, or anticipate being low on energy. If you can manage fine, then I see no reason to give up positioning and a better view of the battle to have a bit of extra energy. If you have channeling up and there are a couple of warriors whacking away at your back/midline, then you should have more energy than you're used to anyways.

It is certainly possible to progress in HA as a PUG. Find other unranked people who are decent, and add them to friends, and eventually you'll be able to find groups pretty quickly, especially if you get lucky enough to find a friend who likes to form their own groups. Learning in a PUG is based largely on noticing your own mistakes, but you should also pay attention to your group members, because in any decent PUG, there will probably be a couple of people who can give out some usefull advice. If you do get the chance to play with a higher ranked person, listen to what they say and take note of their advice and the reasoning for the things they say and do. You have a good point about not wanting to bug those people, but nobody will take offense if you whisper them after a game an ask them to think of you next time they're inclined to play unranked.

Sha Noran · Jan 09, 2008, 07:08 AM // 07:08

If you're low ranked and get in a high ranked PUG on a lucky PM, do yourself a favor and do two things:

1) Shut up.
2) Listen to everything.

If you know they're better than you, do what they say. Don't argue, don't give them reasons for what you thought, don't make suggestions for their build, don't be overly apologetic for everything, don't try to be funny about sucking, don't try to be hardcore and loud so that no one confronts you about messing up, don't ask to join anyones guild, don't talk about your guild.

Just don't make conversation or even talk unless it directly relates to information your team needs to know about the game going on, and do what the team leader instructs you to do. Playing like this will earn you some fame, and in the best circumstances, will teach you a bit about the game.