Curse

Alex the Great · Dec 29, 2007, 03:55 PM // 15:55

i believe that was a very nice constructive critisism, and they deserved worse.

-not enough frontline to really kill much
-mel derv > lyssa
-not enough defense to be considered defensive

are they just gonna hope that people will stand in the lava???

jaeharys targaryen · Dec 29, 2007, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

I should bite my tounge, but I won't.

I really can't even go into all the points. I have not the time, nor the interest. I don't like the fact that someone doesn't play with us for weeks at a time, then comes on to the forums and trashes our highly effective build.

A build is supposed to be something greater than the sum of it's parts. That's what this build is, and it has been more effective than anything we've run recently. For the most part, I hate the meta. I was the same way when I played Magic, Mage Knight, Asheron's Call, Netrunner, or any other competetive game I've played at a high level. I can't stand doing what is being done by others. It really breeds boredom, and an overall lack of creativity and skill. Hence the reason we run builds like this. It's interesting, effective, and entirly different from anything else on obs mode.

I'm sorry if this comes off as nasty. I just really can't stand this type of post. It breeds discontent, confusion, and frustration. It's not productive or constructive.

If you do end up leaving your guild, do us all a favor and try to convey to this person that he sucks at this game.

Quote:

I like the idea of a 4 or 5 hexer build, this just happens to be the worst one I've ever seen.

that is the wisest post so far, imo.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 29, 2007, 06:12 PM // 18:12

needs more anti-melee skill so they actually stick and you dont explode, vocal to shutdown random song of resto gons, and as mentioned, more management.

I like the idea of a 4 or 5 hexer build, this just happens to be the worst one I've ever seen.

wuzzman · Dec 29, 2007, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floski

Any team with hexeater and 2 decent warriors is going to steamroll you.

The standard balanced setup with ranger, mesmer, paragon w/warmongers can do enough disruption on your hexers to kill you fast. This is of course provided you're playing someone who knows what they're doing. You will probably rickroll bad teams and die to good ones. That's what gimmick builds do.

I don't need to have played a dolyak signet warrior to know that it fails. Likewise I don't need to play your build to know that it is going to get dominated by certain things. And I've played against heavy hex before, even before they were nerfed. As long as the other teams midline is semi competent, you're going to lose.

you don't even need hex-eater.....two decent warriors is enough to kill the other team before they get around to pressuring you out at the stand and there is little stopping 2/6 or 3/5 hell 1/7 is effective enough to wipe any npc's with little trouble.

twicky_kid · Dec 30, 2007, 12:21 PM // 12:21

The only reason hexes worked was because of the heavy prot bars on the monks with LoD being one of the few "red bars go up" skills. Using Sig of humility to shut that down your hexes could kill. Now with the change to more healing skills over prot I don't think this is going to work.

Those mes bars are horrible in itself.

Lyssa is subpar to Melundru.

Another thing with more healing skills in the game why are you not using scourge healing and enchantment?

Avarre · Dec 30, 2007, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

I believe 5 hex was a popular farming build during the last champ point weekend, which I believe took place after the major nerf to curses. This looks like a mod of it.

If you took the 5hex we ran in [sad], and removed a lot of the skills that made it work, you would get the build posted here.

The build concept is fine but the bars are very unrefined. The lack of Rising Bile is not a good thing. More anti-melee could be compressed into the necro bars, and both Mesmers should have humility. I'd drop the Water ele entirely for a third necro and put run skills on at least one of the necros, since the water hexes aren't going to benefit you as much as being able to bring in more necro abilities.

jaeharys targaryen · Dec 31, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

The only reason hexes worked was because of the heavy prot bars on the monks with LoD being one of the few "red bars go up" skills. Using Sig of humility to shut that down your hexes could kill. Now with the change to more healing skills over prot I don't think this is going to work.

Those mes bars are horrible in itself.

Lyssa is subpar to Melundru.

Another thing with more healing skills in the game why are you not using scourge healing and enchantment?

thats an excellent point about lod and humsig, and i have to agree. even in TA i was able to brush off hex necros simply because i had the WoH power behind me to beat the degen.

JR · Dec 31, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Robo

A good Blinding Surge ele could singlehandedly stop Eurospike back in the day. I doubt Lyssa Dervishes are more effective.

Not if they had a decent monk that could time Mend Condition with the spike. Or in my case Purge Signet because I was that awesome.

Byron · Jan 06, 2008, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

I was that awesome.

Just so you can't delete it:

Melandru is always better than Lyssa. Wearying Strike, no blind, how2beet?

red orc · Jan 06, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

I know how you feel. But you cannot return to a guild and be so leet to change what they are doing. They run this build, you dont like it, dont play it.
Simple as that. Or you can say, I like the people, but I dont like the build. I'll hang around, help the fights and when I prove myself to be an asset to the guild and make some friends, I may have enough laverage to change the the build into something better. Something that people will improve by playing it. Something that will not be one dimensional.
Until then, try to have as much fun as you can with the current build.

Dodo The Extinct · Jan 06, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Refer your guild to this thread

....srsly

Captain Robo · Jan 07, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

I did, and I was kicked for it.

If they're not competitive players in the way I'd like to be, that's fine. They can continue to play their build, and listen to whomever they want. Some of the best players in the game offer their advice in this thread, and if you're not comfortable having your build critiqued by the best players in the game, you shouldn't be playing it competitively.

I linked to this thread on their forums, and they subsequently passworded their GVG Forum, so they probably can still read this, and if they are, they should know that at no point was I ever unreasonable, or out of line in discussing their build. I never objected to playing it if they needed me for a role (although, for the umpteenth time, my inactivity in past month has been due to my school internet connection having a bandwidth cap. If you REALLY wanted me to play during those times, consider it a favor that I refrained from guild battles with a four-second lag), and every single point I brought up in criticizing it was valid (if you still doubt me on this issue, I invite you to repost my comments here so other knowledgeable impartial observers can evaluate their validity).

There is no relativity in the discussion of this build. It is a bad build; it is uncompetitive, and if you think otherwise, you are bad at the game. There is nothing this build can do that something else cannot do better. You will never grow as a player by playing this build.

It's not an insult, it's not vindication, it's the truth.

I called on better players in an attempt to back my claims about the build with a genuine desire to help my guild become more competitive, and they called it a "lack of friendship". Get over yourselves. Guildwars is no longer a game about build innovation; it doesn't matter if you play something that's tried and true when it's the skill of the players on your team that really matters. However, you can't expect your players to do well if you give them bad builds to work with. Both the build and the players have to be strong for a successful team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

I know how you feel. But you cannot return to a guild and be so leet to change what they are doing. They run this build, you dont like it, dont play it.
Simple as that. Or you can say, I like the people, but I dont like the build. I'll hang around, help the fights and when I prove myself to be an asset to the guild and make some friends, I may have enough laverage to change the the build into something better. Something that people will improve by playing it. Something that will not be one dimensional.
Until then, try to have as much fun as you can with the current build.

I'm not sure how it works in other guilds, but I was under the assumption that everyone had a say in build critiquing. If you're going to be playing a role, you need to know how to best play it. Accordingly, if you know of something that works better for the function of a certain role, you should suggest it!

The problem is that this build just cannot be defended in any logical respect. It has too many holes, loses to too many things, and just because you can rickroll bad teams with it doesn't mean that it has merit. By that logic, 55 monks, barrage pet, and grenth's balance warriors should be the best builds in the game, just because they can kill every monster in pve. That build will lose against any competent team that knows how to play this game, and with or without me, they're going to realize it.

soupnazi · Jan 08, 2008, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Don't feel bad. You did the right thing. I was in that guild in the past, and they have told me to run worse. Can you say, 8 D/Mos loading up with enchants + mystic regen and spiking with SoMW? (after it was nerfed i might add). I left for basically the same reasons-they wouldn't believe me when I said what there were running was shittastic (yeah its a word.). I got tired of the nonsense and decided to play actual gvg. We face them from time to time (rarely, since our rank hasn't dropped below 1000 in a while) and I just /point /laugh after we roll them in 3 mins.

You need a guild, let me know. I can hook you up.

Matrim Cauthorn · Jan 08, 2008, 10:41 PM // 22:41

I agree as well. I left that guild shortly before you came back because of that build and the ones before it.

I wouldn't worry since they have taken such an attitude toward anyone who disagrees with their ideas. I tried to convince them as well, though I wasn't as nice.

Look at it this way, it's over. Let them stay where they are: the bottom.

red orc · Jan 09, 2008, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Robo

I did, and I was kicked for it.

That was expected. Unless the guys in charge are your real friends, you will always be kicked for criticising. I can show you my threads from a year ago, about the same issue.
From what I found, guilds are nothing but democratic. There are the founder or founders and there are the plebs. Any criticism from the plebs results almost always in a kick.

Lord Darksoul · Jan 15, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Pfft, in the most basest of terms, screw them. From what you've shown us, you've been constructive the whole time, and they're being the rude blunt ones.

Don't worry, they weren't good friends of yours, or else they'd have at least taken your advice into consideration.

Find a new guild, where your help will not fall onto deaf ears.

Best of luck to you.

Captain Robo · Jan 15, 2008, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Thanks, I appreciate it.

At any rate, there's really no more need for guild drama.

/close please.

JR · Jan 16, 2008, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Closed on request.