Curse

RhanoctJocosa · Dec 31, 2007, 05:51 AM // 05:51

change gale, blackout and shame to how they were.

ty

IMMORTAlMITCH · Dec 31, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

change gale, blackout and shame to how they were.

ty

No.

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Burton2000 · Dec 31, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

A 10 second shame would be very overpowered. While were at it why dont we revert power leak to what it was.

jaeharys targaryen · Dec 31, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

change gale, blackout to how they were.

ty

fixed for yah =)

Burton2000 · Dec 31, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Blackout I agree can get its duration back because of the fact you have to overextend into the enemies backline to use it but to give gale back its 3sec KD the recharge would have to be upped. Perhaps change to: 5Energy 1 Cast 12 Recharge?

Dominator1370 · Dec 31, 2007, 04:43 PM // 16:43

If I'm wrong, ignore me and call me an idiot, but I'd be more than mildly surprised to find that a 3s KD Gale needed a 12s recharge to balance it. Feel like spamming Gale? Go crazy. Just make sure you DO realize that every time you use Gale, the exhaustion takes 30 seconds to go away fully. Big grey energy bars = FTW.

jaeharys targaryen · Dec 31, 2007, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominator1370

If I'm wrong, ignore me and call me an idiot, but I'd be more than mildly surprised to find that a 3s KD Gale needed a 12s recharge to balance it. Feel like spamming Gale? Go crazy. Just make sure you DO realize that every time you use Gale, the exhaustion takes 30 seconds to go away fully. Big grey energy bars = FTW.

i totally agree with this. exhaustion is the ultimate counter.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Dec 31, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominator1370

If I'm wrong, ignore me and call me an idiot, but I'd be more than mildly surprised to find that a 3s KD Gale needed a 12s recharge to balance it. Feel like spamming Gale? Go crazy. Just make sure you DO realize that every time you use Gale, the exhaustion takes 30 seconds to go away fully. Big grey energy bars = FTW.

Exhaustion matters very little when the opponent's team is dead.

Shendaar · Dec 31, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

The Glyph of Energy + Gale mesmer bar is already pretty good. Buff Gale back to its original state and it could become problematic. Especially if you restore blackout as well.

Dominator1370 · Dec 31, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

I never said 5s recharge was fine. 3s KD on a 5s recharge looks pretty deadly. I just said 12s seemed like a bit much.

Think about it: 2s KD / 5r vs. 3s KD / 12r. I guess it'd work out to 33% KD vs. 23% KD with no fast-cast. At 16 fast-cast, it's 36% vs. 24%, just to give you an idea of ranges.

Since we're assuming that exhaustion isn't a concern (which, by the way, wasn't my idea) you don't think monks being down an extra 10-12% of the time is important? I'm assuming we're talking about more than a single Gale'er here, since we're talking about a wipe due to KD before exhaustion can pile up. If we're chaining Gale anyway, won't that extra KD time really add up?

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to say that the only concern with Gale is % of time KD'd. I understand a 3s Gale on an infuser during a spike is more harmful than a 2s one. I understand that a 3s KD vs. a 2s KD means less exhaustion per time KD'd.

However, if it's so gamebreaking, why don't we see more Gales on typical team-builds? There's no lack of E/ 's and /E's around. Why don't people slot Gale on Water Ele's, or BSurges, or Mesmers with their fast cast (Gale isn't half bad as an interrupt with some fast-cast), or hell, toss Gale back on their Axe bar? 2 Gales now is a 4s KD, which I have to imagine is more harmful than a 3s KD. You could even Gale both Monks, which means they probably only have the runner to defend your spike.

I'm not trying to suggest everyone should run 6 copies of Gale, I'm just curious why no one's trying to come up with a way for extended Gale KD's if they're so problematic.

TheOneMephisto · Dec 31, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominator1370

If I'm wrong, ignore me and call me an idiot, but I'd be more than mildly surprised to find that a 3s KD Gale needed a 12s recharge to balance it. Feel like spamming Gale? Go crazy. Just make sure you DO realize that every time you use Gale, the exhaustion takes 30 seconds to go away fully. Big grey energy bars = FTW.

The main problem is that a short gale recharge allows a couple of copies of gale in a build to totally lock out characters for relatively long amounts of time. Even if these burst lockouts can't be sustained for too long and take recovery time, they're very effective at making things die without much the other team can do about it (see the gale wars era of GW).

Being entirely locked out of a game with almost nothing you can do about it is no fun. The exhaustion mechanic of gale + short recharge is a great idea, but I don't exactly like a game that revolves around chain-galing targets, no matter how much coordination it takes to pull it off, just because sitting on your ass for 20 seconds at a time is no fun. So to prevent this, ANet either has to make gale a 2sec KD (making chaining really hard but weakening the skill considerably) or increase the recharge (which kind of invalidates the purpose of the short recharge + exhaustion in the first place and reduces the amount of pushes and plays you can make with it).

In other words, I'm not sure how I feel about revert to 3sec gale without changing the recharge. It would be interesting to try out though.

Burton2000 · Dec 31, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Another suggestion I read awhile ago was to revert gale but make it elite.

Aera · Dec 31, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burton2000

Another suggestion I read awhile ago was to revert gale but make it elite.

[skill]Gust[/skill]

Lulz. Wtb buff.

Neo-LD · Dec 31, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

This might be coming out of nowhere, but it would be really great if Charging Strike's damage would trigger regardless of whether or not your next attack is an attack skill. After all, thats the way Enraging Charge works.

TheOneMephisto · Jan 01, 2008, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

This might be coming out of nowhere, but it would be really great if Charging Strike's damage would trigger regardless of whether or not your next attack is an attack skill. After all, thats the way Enraging Charge works.

That might get ridiculous though. +63 damage bull's strikes? +110 damage final thrusts? I don't know exactly what kind of characters would come out of it, but I know that you'd have to be extremely careful with attack skills.

Seamus Finn · Jan 01, 2008, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Some random sin buffs that might make them a more versatile class:

Iron Palm could see a recharge reduction to maybe 12 or so.

Crippling dagger is almost good but seeing how strong siphon speed is I don't know how viable it could become... maybe reducing the cast time to 3/4.

Dark Escape would be far more useful to a sin if it had a recharge closer to natural stride. Perhaps halving the current duration/recharge would make stand sins more viable(monks could also get a lot out of the buff, but with things like disciplined stance already around I don't think it would be too rediculous).

Blinding powder could be an interesting skill if it were to count as a lead attack, require half range cast area, and then drop the recharge significantly, maybe somewhere around 5-8 seconds, with the duration also scaling down considerably.

I am not sure where caltrops would need to be to come close to siphon speed, but I would start with at least halving the recharge and possibly casting cost.

Palm Strike as an elite looks like something that should be letting a sin pack a bar with some of the strongest dual attacks in the game, but has the recharge of any other lead skipper in the game. With the recent nerfs to some of the best utility duals, I think the recharge on this skill could be lowered to even as much as 2-3 seconds and be fine(comparable to moebius). Certainly a recharge greater than 5 seconds makes the skill pretty useless.

If black spider is going to remain in its current state damage wise, I would suggest lowering the cost back to 5 energy(the nerfs to this skill were pretty misguided in the first place). Of course, with the access to poison, I think the skill could perhaps be reworked as a more standard offhand or possibly lead attack without the hex clause. I am not certain what numbers would look right yet.

Neo-LD · Jan 01, 2008, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

That might get ridiculous though. +63 damage bull's strikes? +110 damage final thrusts? I don't know exactly what kind of characters would come out of it, but I know that you'd have to be extremely careful with attack skills.

As is, Charging Strike allows a fairly flexible splitting template to be built around it, since its such handy speed boost and lets a warrior inflict alot of damage without resorting to Frenzy. The new version would bestow the template with more plays like +60 Bulls Strikes and Dismembers that hit like Eviscerates, which would make it a more attractive (and playable) choice. It would still be limited by its vast energy requirements and elite status, and we're only talking about 30 extra damage, so I dont see any risk of degeneracy.

Kyp Jade · Jan 01, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

MONK
------

Aura of Stability -> move to smiting
Strength and Honor -> / delete
LoD -> rebuffed but earshot only

DERVISH
-----
nothing to say, these guys will always be spikers no matter what u change

RITS
-----
Warmongers -> 2s cast OR end if fail to hit

SINS
-----
All of the prebuffs, Dark apostacy/Way of the master -> ether renewaled
Shadowstepping -> /delete

WARRIOR
-----
Fear me -> Target Adjacent Foe
Steady Stance -> 20s recharge //plx change the meta away from this

ELEMENTALIST
----
Mindblast -> returns 8 energy at 16 fire

Earthquake -> 2s cast
Dragonstomp -> 2s cast

Ward Melee -> 10 energy

Windborne -> Buff this to be insane (like make haste)

RANGER
---
Rampage as one -> Rebuff, but only works with Bow, end if weapon swap

NECROMANCER
---
Chilblains -> 15 energy
Order of Apostasy -> 20s Recharge, really this is in every gimmicy build

PARAGON
---
Song of Conc -> 6 adren, party members only
Make Haste -> Nerf to windborne specs, or buff windborn
Chants are now easily interupted while dazed

masta_yoda · Jan 01, 2008, 06:19 AM // 06:19

"fear me" as said, to 4 sec recharge

"Ancestors rage" and "splinter weapon" are 100* better than the whole line of smiting skills. Serious damage nerf like wtf.

Made In Ascalon · Jan 01, 2008, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by masta_yoda

"fear me" as said, to 4 sec recharge

"Ancestors rage" and "splinter weapon" are 100* better than the whole line of smiting skills. Serious damage nerf like wtf.

It's also 100* better than pretty much everything else in the channeling line. Heh.