Curse

Neo-LD · Dec 26, 2007, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

No.....

Well, you're right that your version of Dshot would still replace Savage and not Dshot, or at least compel people to run 3 interrupts. But I think you underestimate the importance the disposability of ranger interrupts. Being able to take chances on probable-but-not-guarenteed-spells-that-your-opponent-hasnt-even-begun-to-cast-yet is part of what makes ranger an important, desirable part of the game. Increasing recharges takes away from that, so if it must be nerfed (still not convinced, its not even better than CripShot) then Id prefer to nerf just about any aspect of the skill except the recharge.

Riotgear · Dec 26, 2007, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaen

Split scrim much? Like morale boosts at all? Like punishing opposing teams for retreating?

Dshot + Magebane + non-interrupt elite bar?

Nobody is complaining about Magebane Shot in GvG.

Quote:

It's an attack meant to distract, not to deal damage, so why should blocking affect it at all?

The same reason Decapitate doesn't instantly kill someone, because balance > concept.

Jaen · Dec 26, 2007, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Nobody is complaining about Magebane Shot in GvG.

And I am pointing out how your proposed changes to balance the skill in smaller formats like TA would change the effectiveness of the skill in GvG. Specifically nerfing recharge is bad, if the skill MUST be nerfed and I'm completely convinced otherwise (having played against it in TA more than a few times), hit the energy cost and not the recharge.

Riotgear · Dec 26, 2007, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaen

And I am pointing out how your proposed changes to balance the skill in smaller formats like TA would change the effectiveness of the skill in GvG. Specifically nerfing recharge is bad, if the skill MUST be nerfed and I'm completely convinced otherwise (having played against it in TA more than a few times), hit the energy cost and not the recharge.

You're confusing me with Mephisto. Personally I'd rather see the energy cost raised to 10 and the disable time changed to a flat time instead of an additional.

Jaen · Dec 26, 2007, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

You're confusing me with Mephisto. Personally I'd rather see the energy cost raised to 10 and the disable time changed to a flat time instead of an additional.

You're right, I apologize for the mistaken identity.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 26, 2007, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoflame

An argument thread between good players (David, Yue) and bad (Fay Vert, oles) on why Troll Unguent shouldn't get a cast time buff

David Holtzman has to be one of my favorite persons on the internet.

Yue, I'm kind of confused. I seem to recall you said you'd like a 2s troll on several occasions, yet you spend that entire thread arguing it would be bad. Or do you mean you wouldn't like it because it's good for the game, but just because you wouldn't, like, die anymore?!?

IMMORTAlMITCH · Dec 26, 2007, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Nobody is complaining about Magebane Shot in GvG.

Hm?

Magebane is somewhat 'balanced' around the fact that cripshot is a neccisity in a lot of builds.

wuzzman · Dec 26, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Not really. If your able to interrupt 1/2 of the other guys bar without even trying then why not shift some shit around and add a Magebane shot ranger on your stand team. people haven't figured out a way to exploit magebane yet but when they do, well it's going to get hit twice as hard as broadheadarrow. and there won't be any pve carebears to boo-hoo about it either.

Yichi · Dec 26, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Not really. If your able to interrupt 1/2 of the other guys bar without even trying then why not shift some shit around and add a Magebane shot ranger on your stand team. people haven't figured out a way to exploit magebane yet but when they do, well it's going to get hit twice as hard as broadheadarrow. and there won't be any pve carebears to boo-hoo about it either.

because then they split and force your magebane ranger to go back and help defend....

Dominator1370 · Dec 26, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Wuzz, when you are talking about "shifting around", are you talking about dual Rangers? If they fix Barbed Arrows, that could be interesting. And in that case, splitting doesn't really do you much good.

neoflame · Dec 26, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

David Holtzman has to be one of my favorite persons on the internet.

I'm impressed by his sheer tenacity in trying to explain logic to people whose arguments often amount to "lol pvp elitism!"

Quote:

Yue, I'm kind of confused. I seem to recall you said you'd like a 2s troll on several occasions, yet you spend that entire thread arguing it would be bad. Or do you mean you wouldn't like it because it's good for the game, but just because you wouldn't, like, die anymore?!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yue

In terms of better worse, I'd personally like it simply because I'm biased. But because I have a pretty good idea of the effect it would have, I would accept that it would be fairly imbalanced to make the change. So it would be good for rangers, bad for balance.

wuzzman · Dec 26, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Defending a split shouldn't be that hard. really 3 man split is usually the only thing that may force a "maybe we should send someone back besides the flag runner" response. In which case what is really stopping your 7 man stand team from wiping their 5 man stand team?

wuzzman · Dec 26, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominator1370

Wuzz, when you are talking about "shifting around", are you talking about dual Rangers? If they fix Barbed Arrows, that could be interesting. And in that case, splitting doesn't really do you much good.

yeah dual rangers. what do you really need to sacrifice when you got a guy who can shutdown 1/2 of ANY of their casters bars by just spamming?

Dominator1370 · Dec 26, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Maybe I should have clarified... the splitting comment was aimed at Yichi's post about splitting to pull the Ranger back to the base... if you're running dual Rangers, splitting is still going to leave a Ranger at the stand with less people to worry about, as well as the Ranger that's harassing your split.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 26, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoflame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yue

In terms of better worse, I'd personally like it simply because I'm biased. But because I have a pretty good idea of the effect it would have, I would accept that it would be fairly imbalanced to make the change. So it would be good for rangers, bad for balance.

kthx, guess I overlooked it.

Yue · Dec 27, 2007, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Dual ranger builds aren't easy to split against.

erk · Dec 27, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Defending a split shouldn't be that hard. really 3 man split is usually the only thing that may force a "maybe we should send someone back besides the flag runner" response. In which case what is really stopping your 7 man stand team from wiping their 5 man stand team?

A good split team 5/3 or 4/4 will make sure their stand team can take punishment. Blockway anit-melee, or just plain good movement whatever. You don't go into a split build without first planning for reduced stand numbers.

wuzzman · Dec 27, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

true but wouldn't Magebane >> a chunck of block layer

Barbie goes guru · Dec 27, 2007, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Not really. If your able to interrupt 1/2 of the other guys bar without even trying then why not shift some shit around and add a Magebane shot ranger on your stand team. people haven't figured out a way to exploit magebane yet but when they do, well it's going to get hit twice as hard as broadheadarrow. and there won't be any pve carebears to boo-hoo about it either.

i take it that by 'shift shit around' you mean find an alternative to cripshot to put on another character. its all well and good to advocate dual ranger builds, but only a very small proportion of guilds actually have a decent ranger (and i mean decent not the trash you generally find in the top 100) let alone 2 decent rangers with which to pull off such a build. furthermore, what exactly are you going to shift around? if you take standard builds swapping out bsurge /paragon where are the viable snares going to come from? maiming spear maybe? as mitch has said, magebane is balanced by the necessity of cripshot giving you options magebane never could.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Defending a split shouldn't be that hard. really 3 man split is usually the only thing that may force a "maybe we should send someone back besides the flag runner" response. In which case what is really stopping your 7 man stand team from wiping their 5 man stand team?

as for this, a 3 man split to me implies 2 things to kill stuff and one to heal them. against this it is fairly standard, as you say to send MORE than the flagger back, so its instantly at least 6 v 5. add to this the fact you still need to run a flag, because guess what? the flag runner is defending the against the split so that makes it 5 v 5. then take into account they run a flag, and its 5 v 4, oh and your 5 includes 2 monks and their 4 includes the defence for the entire team. in addition to this, the best option for restricting the opposing teams movement you are arguing to replace, or 'shift' to another character that is less likely to have the survival capabilities of a cripshot ranger.

p.s i value myself only slightly above the generic trash rangers in the top 100, but in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.

LuckyGiant · Dec 27, 2007, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Might as well clean out TA while you're at it. Heres a couple of brainless skills for ya.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Ritualist:
Warmongers - 19/20 seconds of interupting, add IAS for permanent brainless interupting. this should never be in the game.

Assassin:
Augury of Death - spammable and promotes all the dumb sh*t with the deepwound kicking in at <50%