Curse

jayce · Dec 22, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

The quotes on that page are epic in their stupidity. Oh noes, the warrior can still attack, and Blind is more effective. Too bad Blind can be (and is) removed and a warrior without attack skills is not a threat at all.

Adding a mini-Gale effect to it is not going to fix it.

whenever i quote something that is not located within the same thread, i always provide a source to where you can find the said quote. while i do not necessarily always agree with any one of someone else's post, i would never directly attack them or label them as stupid. if anything you should point out why their recommendation would not work or provide a recommendation of your own and why you think it would work. but above all, be nice about it.

as to fixing Wail of Doom, something would first have to be wrong with it. there is nothing wrong with Wail of Doom. but it is a skill with probably the most potential (elite-wise) to see more use. adding another utility (and it does not have to be knockdown) could help. taking something away from it when you don't have to won't help. i know some people believe that because its in the SR attribute is a reason why its not used. other may believe that its the sac fee and/or the cost. i gave my own opinion as to why i believe its fine, with the current cost and description. thats all any of us can do. agreeing on the best recommendation is the hard part. if moving Wail of Doom out of SR is the best option, then by all means lets do it. if it becomes a hassle, then and only then should you take a little away from it. if its still not good enough, then add a little to it (a uh...utility perhaps).

imo, the necromancer needs options that does not have to rely on hex overloads. hexing is fine, the necro does it well with probably the most efficient hexes. they just need hexes that can preform well without overloads (not turning the nerco into a mesmer) and they need need more support/utility non-hex spells. Wail of Doom can be one of those spells.

Jayce Of Underworld

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 22, 2007, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Wail of Doom shouldn't ever be viable in its current form. It needs to trigger only on an interrupt of attack skills before it becomes the kind of spell you want to have in the game. Currently, it's this boring shutdown skill that's overpriced, but completely impossible for the other team to shut down while that guy is alive.

jayce · Dec 23, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Wail of Doom shouldn't ever be viable in its current form. It needs to trigger only on an interrupt of attack skills before it becomes the kind of spell you want to have in the game. Currently, it's this boring shutdown skill that's overpriced, but completely impossible for the other team to shut down while that guy is alive.

duly noted, as your example would fall under the hassle catagory i described above. i understood your reasoning in your previous post. i just gave reasons as to why its fine in its current form which would include the relativity easier method of landing this skill. one can only be sure after testing of the skill in high-end PvP, in both forms if necessary.

Jayce Of Underworld

Ecklipze · Dec 23, 2007, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Am I the only one who prefered the original Magebane Shot?

Would be nice to see it changed back.

Llint · Dec 23, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecklipze

Am I the only one who prefered the original Magebane Shot?

Would be nice to see it changed back.

Yes you are the only one that wants it changed back.

wuzzman · Dec 23, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayce

whenever i quote something that is not located within the same thread, i always provide a source to where you can find the said quote. while i do not necessarily always agree with any one of someone else's post, i would never directly attack them or label them as stupid. if anything you should point out why their recommendation would not work or provide a recommendation of your own and why you think it would work. but above all, be nice about it.

as to fixing Wail of Doom, something would first have to be wrong with it. there is nothing wrong with Wail of Doom. but it is a skill with probably the most potential (elite-wise) to see more use. adding another utility (and it does not have to be knockdown) could help. taking something away from it when you don't have to won't help. i know some people believe that because its in the SR attribute is a reason why its not used. other may believe that its the sac fee and/or the cost. i gave my own opinion as to why i believe its fine, with the current cost and description. thats all any of us can do. agreeing on the best recommendation is the hard part. if moving Wail of Doom out of SR is the best option, then by all means lets do it. if it becomes a hassle, then and only then should you take a little away from it. if its still not good enough, then add a little to it (a uh...utility perhaps).

imo, the necromancer needs options that does not have to rely on hex overloads. hexing is fine, the necro does it well with probably the most efficient hexes. they just need hexes that can preform well without overloads (not turning the nerco into a mesmer) and they need need more support/utility non-hex spells. Wail of Doom can be one of those spells.

Jayce Of Underworld

or just return necro hex's to their original recharge and duration. it wasn't broke, ya'll fixed it, its now broke, and you guys are wondering how to fix it? geez you need 2 illusion mesmers to even think you have anti-melee defense and that was BEFORE the clumsiness nerf and people are trying to model hex's after that? players are rich. I guess active defense is 3 monks, with 2 spamming guardian.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 23, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

I guess active defense is 3 monks, with 2 spamming guardian.

Actually, yea, that's active defense.

wuzzman · Dec 23, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

I call that pushing up health bars and even then you still need an Aegis and a DA to keep your team from getting butt raped by 2 shock warriors.

ensoriki · Dec 23, 2007, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Wail+ GoE, many casters use GoE anyways so this combo wouldn't be abnormal
Just remove the sac fee IMO, when that happens people are going to want to play with this skill, see if they can do something to it, and then it will find its place probably. If that doesn't work, well theres always next time?

Anyways, I'd like to know if anyone agrees that lingering curse should be brought to 15 energy.

BSS and GPS nerfs.
+1..6 damage for BSS and +1..8 damage for GPS.
we could make them hit +4...16 damage if they follow a lead attack or something, to balance them out.
BSS becoming 5 energy, and maybe 6 or 8 recharge to account for this damage loss.

Making both AoD,Dark Prison and Shadow prison End your stances when you use them and disable all non-assassin stances.
I think thats fair.
With these, horns can be reverted I believe? (any complaints?) allowing AoD sin, with FLS or FS, and possibly other variants with it. We could also see more adjustments to the assassin with those changes in place.
this allows Shadow Prison to get 20 recharge once again.

Anyways.
I'd like to see magebane at 10 recharge.
It's powerful enough at what it does to allow it to be 10 recharge.
In the combination, Magebane,distracting savage, Savage shot makes up for the down time of these two skills, this still allows for an interruption focused ranger.

I've been looking at Archer's Signet.
This could have some synergy with other skills, one of the problems I see with it is that expertise is already doing its job in a sense.
I'd like to see this become 30 recharge and affect your next 2..7 instead of 1..6.
It's like GoE for ranger skills, we could see concussion shot in play with Archer's signet and Lower Expertise.
If rangers are able to take lower expertise, we could see interesting things.

Such a combo I think would be interesting with Archers at 30 recharge and 2..7 is.
Archers signet, Concussion Shot, Distracting Shot
With 7 expertise or so giving 4 uses from archers signet.
They could use concussion shot primarily for interrupting, and distracting when they need to disable a key skill.
A team could run Dual rangers, one Cripshot, and one of these, applying Daze to casters and interrupting them.
It's probably a bad idea...

Blessed light should be buffed also.

Burton2000 · Dec 23, 2007, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Tbh magebanes strong but it doesnt need to be nerfed.

Dominator1370 · Dec 23, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

If you're going to make Magebane a 10r, you better up the disable to 20. Really, though, I think upping it to 10e would be enough to cut down it's spamability.

If, somehow (be it Archer's Signet or whatever) Concussing Shot becomes spamable despite its energy cost, suddenly it's better than Broadhead, since it recharges 3x faster. The problem is, Dazed is only good if you can get it to stick to a monk. All you need to get rid of Dazed is an off-monk Draw or a Mending Touch.

Please bring back Horns of the Ox, it was a really good skill. Oh, and actually fix the problem this time.

GoLE + Wail of Doom could probably already be viable (and downright scary, in fact) if there was actually a reason to spec so high into SR.

ensoriki · Dec 23, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

If, somehow (be it Archer's Signet or whatever) Concussing Shot becomes spamable despite its energy cost, suddenly it's better than Broadhead, since it recharges 3x faster. The problem is, Dazed is only good if you can get it to stick to a monk. All you need to get rid of Dazed is an off-monk Draw or a Mending Touch

2 skill slots vs one skill slot.
Archer's (in my suggestion)only works off your next 2...7,
meaning if your just spamming concussion shot your going to need high expertise, even with archer's.
Broadhead, shouldn't become obsolete by any means if Archer's t was buffed.

Concussion can already be spammed with
Marksman's wager.
Archers+ concussion is 2 slots
Marksman's + concussions is 2 slots.

Even though Marksmans + concussion already works, it hasn't killed BHA
So BHA's status is fine.

BHA= 1 slot, concussion+ archers/marksmans is 2.

dies like fish · Dec 24, 2007, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

I call that pushing up health bars and even then you still need an Aegis and a DA to keep your team from getting butt raped by 2 shock warriors.

[wiki]Aura of Stability[/wiki] and [wiki]Balanced Stance[/wiki]

Welcome to build wars, my friend.

wuzzman · Dec 24, 2007, 02:16 AM // 02:16

welcome to enchant stripping have a nice day...though I love to see Mo/W's

Paddatoochie · Dec 24, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

welcome to enchant stripping have a nice day...though I love to see Mo/W's

Once again, Welcome to Build Wars.

wuzzman · Dec 24, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

what balance team doesn't remove enchantments...I like to meet that team

Shendaar · Dec 24, 2007, 02:46 AM // 02:46

You tend to have better enchantments to remove than Aura Of Stability. Imo anyway.

wuzzman · Dec 24, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

true but since when aren't at least 1 enchant removed before the spike....anyway I starting to wonder when kiting will be called build wars. "HEY NOOB YOU KITTED!!! YOU GOTTA SIT STILL AND SPAM GUARDIAN IF YOUR REALLY PLAYING THIS GAME ACTIVELY!!"

erk · Dec 24, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

true but since when aren't at least 1 enchant removed before the spike....anyway I starting to wonder when kiting will be called build wars. "HEY NOOB YOU KITTED!!! YOU GOTTA SIT STILL AND SPAM GUARDIAN IF YOUR REALLY PLAYING THIS GAME ACTIVELY!!"

It's always a trade off, if you are kiting you are not casting and others may be dying.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Dec 24, 2007, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burton2000

Tbh magebanes strong but it doesnt need to be nerfed.

I disagree, at the very least it needs to be 10 energy, possibly even increase the recharge slightly (7-8r or something) at the moment the effect is just too good for the cost/spammability.

When people just randomly spam it and it's still effective that's a clear sign that it's too strong tbh.

As far as skill changes go, some stuff I'd like to see:

Monk:

A viable party healing option that doesn't require half a skillbar to support it, and some slight buffs to potentially useful healing prayers skills.

Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight: All party members in earshot are healed for (10..70) Health. Attribute Divine Favor, Cost 5 Energy, Activation time 1, Recharge 12

A decent party healing option in divine favor would be really nice in the current meta, so you don't have to run a gimmicky backline (HB/SoD) or gimped characters (Motivation paragons etc).

Patient Spirit: For 3 seconds, target ally is enchanted with Patient Spirit. When this Enchantment ends, that ally is healed for (20..100) Health. Attribute Healing Prayers, Cost 5 Energy, Activation time 1/4, Recharge 3

It just doesn't do enough for the 3 sec delay atm, not sure if this change would be enough but it would make it a somewhat decent skill, useful cover enchant on spikes if nothing else.

Healing Light: Heal target ally for (40..100) Health. If your target has an Enchantment, you gain (1..3) Energy. Attribute Healing Prayers, Cost 5 Energy, Activation time 3/4, Recharge 3

Cast time and (to a lesser extent) recharge make this unviable, not sure if this would be enough, possibly increase the heal slightly too or decrease the recharge by another second.

Spotless Mind: For (1..15) seconds, target ally loses a Hex every 5 seconds. Attribute Healing Prayers, Cost 5 Energy, Activation time 1/4, Recharge 12

This needs to be selfcastable to ever make it onto any bar.

Spotless Soul: For (1..15) seconds, target ally loses a Condition every 3 seconds. Attribute Healing Prayers, Cost 5 Energy, Activation time 1/4, Recharge 8

Also needs to be selfcastable as well as a shorter recharge.

Aura of Stability: For (3..12) seconds, target other ally cannot be knocked down. Attribute Protection Prayers, Cost 5 Energy, Activation time 1/4, Recharge 12

Lasts too long, singlehandedly makes hammer warriors an unattractive char to run.

Ranger:

Trying to give rangers a little more options regarding elites and preparations also toning down 'Megabane Shot' somewhat (yes that was an intentional typo)

Pin Down: If Pin Down hits, your target is Crippled for (3..10) seconds. Attribute Marksmanship, Cost 10 Energy, Recharge 8

Give rangers a viable non-elite snare option, so there's less of a NEED for cripshot.

Poison Tip Signet: For 60 seconds, your next attack also inflicts Poison for (8..15) seconds. Attribute Wilderness Survival, Activation time 3/4, Recharge 4

Make poison tip a more viable way of spreading poison.

Barbed Arrows: For 24 seconds, your arrows cause Bleeding for (3..15) seconds. Attribute Wilderness Survival, Cost 10 Energy, Activation time 2, Recharge 12

No reason why this is worse than apply in every way possible.

Melandru's Arrows: For 24 seconds, whenever your arrows hit, they cause Bleeding for (3..25) seconds and do +(8..28) damage if they hit a target who is under an Enchantment. Attribute Wilderness Survival, Cost 5 Energy, Activation time 2, Recharge 12

Made duration in line with Apply.

Troll Unguent: For 10 seconds, you gain Health regeneration +(3..10). Attribute Wilderness Survival, Cost 5 Energy, Activation time 2, Execute time 0.75, Recharge 12

Made it somewhat more usable.

Magebane Shot: If this attack hits, it interrupts target foe's action. If that action was a Spell, it is disabled for 10 seconds. This attack cannot be blocked. Attribute No Attribute, Cost 10 Energy, Activation time 1/2, Recharge 5

At 5 Energy this is far too good, might need another slight nerf.

Ritualist:

Some nerfs to possibly the 2 most imbalanced skills in the game, and a slight buff to make PwK a bit more useful.

Splinter Weapon: For 20 seconds, target ally has a Splinter Weapon. Target ally's next (1..5) attacks deal (5..50) damage to up to 3 adjacent foes. Attribute Channeling Magic, Cost 5 Energy, Activation time 1, Execute time 0.75, Recharge 5

I really don't know what to do with this, I put it here because it's too powerful atm and you gimp your build by not bringing it. Maybe make it trigger on less attacks or increase the recharge or energy cost somewhat (something like 10 energy or 10 recharge).

Ancestors' Rage: For 1 second, nothing happens. When Ancestors' Rage ends, all foes adjacent to target ally are struck for (30..130) lightning damage. Attribute Channeling Magic, Cost 10 Energy, Activation time 1/4, Execute time 0.75, Recharge 8

Not sure if this is the best way of nerfing this, but it definately needs a nerf.

Protective Was Kaolai: Hold Kaolai's ashes for up to (15..60) seconds. While you hold his ashes, you have an additional 24 armor. When you drop his ashes, all party members are healed for (10..70) Health. Attribute Restoration Magic, Cost 5 Energy, Activation time 1, Recharge 15

Too pricy for what it does, made it 5 energy and scaled heal/recharge.

Mesmer:

Slight PLeak nerf, Shatter storm buff and made some inspiration stuff viable again.

Shatter Storm: Target foe loses all Enchantments. For each enchantment removed this way, Shatter Storm is disabled for an additional 10 seconds. If more than 1 enchantment was removed you lose 5 energy. Attribute No Attribute, Cost 5 Energy, Activation time 1, Recharge 0

Mesmer lack a viable elite enchantment removal, though I'm a little hesitant about this change because of the way guilds like Rawr play (a mesmer with 3 enchantment removals and a pure spike build).

Power Leak: If target foe is casting a Spell or Chant, that skill is interrupted and target foe loses (5..20) Energy. Attribute Domination Magic, Cost 10 Energy, Activation time 1/4, Recharge 15

Even though I mainly play mesmer myself and this is a skill that requires 'skill' to use, I feel that it's a bit too powerful at 12r.

Feedback: Target foe loses one Enchantment. If an Enchantment is removed in this way, that foe also loses (5..12) Energy. Attribute Inspiration Magic, Cost 10 Energy, Activation time 1, Recharge 20

This has always been an interesting skill in my opinion, but never really was viable because of bad numbers.

Inspired/Revealed Hex: Remove a Hex from target ally and gain (5..12) Energy. For 20 seconds, Inspired Hex is replaced with the Hex that was removed. Attribute Inspiration Magic, Cost 5 Energy, Activation time 1, Recharge 0

Never understood why this got nerfed in the first place, skills like this are good for the game imo.

Warrior:

"Fear Me!": All nearby foes lose (1..4) Energy. Attribute Tactics, Cost 6 strikes of Adrenaline, Activation time 0, Recharge 4

Raised adren cost and added a recharge, just the recharge won't help because Drunken Blow + Steady Stance already charges it full.

Healing Signet: You gain (40..140) Health. You have -40 armor while using this skill. Attribute Tactics, Activation time 1, Recharge 6

Made it somewhat more usable.

It seems that physical damage (mainly paragons) and condition pressure (poison helped by unblockable magebane spam) are really powerful in this metagame, I think the main reason for this is that most people don't run enough party healing (because there really aren't that many viable options)

Some more options for party healing as well as some buffed selfheals should go a long way towards providing the tools needed to counter pressure in another way than defense ball.