Curse

FoxBat · Dec 17, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominator1370

Now, does this mean that GoLE is overpowered, or that about a quarter of the skills in the game are underpowered?

One thing about GoLE is it isn't so amazing on all those 5e monk skills. You need to have something like Aegis, ZB, SoR, HP, SoD or Divine Spirit along, and even then you are often not going to get the 10e reduction on your second skill.

That said, there's plenty of room for insp line buffing... but it shouldn't outperform GoLE's typical net 10-enr gain at a monk-level inspiration spec. Well, unless that's your idea for a solution to the "party heal" problem.

Barbed Arrows could really stand to lose the interrupt-when-apply thing. Not sure if it's enough but it would help.

The only thing you can really do on trolls is reduce to 2s, or maybe make it last a little longer. The regen is already near-max. I'd worry if the armor penalty on healing sig were dropped that some caster somewhere might figure out how to use it.

erk · Dec 17, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominator1370

Now, does this mean that GoLE is overpowered, or that about a quarter of the skills in the game are underpowered?

I think you will find the it's GLoE not needing any attribute points, to net you back the 15 energy which makes it great. Overpowered no, as it commits you to having an Ele secondary for just that one skill instead of a secondary that is more useful, so you have to decide if energy is all that your after from the secondary, a fair trade off.

Dominator1370 · Dec 17, 2007, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Barbed Arrows could really stand to lose the interrupt-when-apply thing. Not sure if it's enough but it would help.

That might be enough to let it see play in dual-ranger situations, as the extra 3 degen might be more appealing than re-applying the same condition. I wonder if it'd be enough to bring condition pressure into more prominence than it's getting. Compared to Apply, though, it would still be worse in every way with the exception of energy cost, which, with Expertise, is pretty much negligible anyway. You get more degen, the condition lasts the same length, and the preparation lasts longer, for the same casting time and recharge.

Re Magebane: I can see how changing it to 10 recharge / 20 disable would be appealing to cut down on the spam, but that just makes it even closer to the same thing as Dshot. I'm not sure if there would be a better solution, and that's probably the easiest... It beats the hell out of just upping the recharge to 8. I dunno, I'm thinking Ineptitude / Clumsiness here, but I'm drawing a blank.

bungusmaximus · Dec 17, 2007, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Might wanna reduce the extra damage taken on using healing signet. Glad I'm not the only one that noticed it's present suckyness. I heard people talking about buffing it to 1 second cast time, but that would make warriors insane imho. maybe -30 or -20 armor when using the skill?

Curses being nerfed out of the game bothers me a bit as well. Hex removal is made more solid now and the entire line strikes me as overpriced and/or slow. It's just that hex builds are so lame so often. That's why they got nerfed in the first place. Necromancers aren't really an example of active play. Just compare faintheartedness to clumsiness. Clumsiness requires timing, but faint is more like a cast-forget skill. I think that class is a nightmare to balance out well.

Oh, and fix pulverizing smash, it's still borked.

Still, if I compare the current state of GW with the state it was in when Nightfall just got released, I'm quite content.

DarkNecrid · Dec 17, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

I want to see attribute sweeping changes, I am not talking about 5 skill change hey we're done, I want to see entire attribute lines being buffed/nerfed, there is too many USELESS elites and too many USELESS skills.

i want to see more than 100 skills viable in GvG.

thnx

Div · Dec 17, 2007, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Oh, silly me how could I forget augury. I'll also add in skills I think should be buffed now too.

And whoever asked, I have no idea how much tactics IWAY runs. I suppose I'll join a group and find out? :P

yum · Dec 17, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Keep magebane as it is, just bring [skill]Wail of Doom[/skill] to curse.

Energy 10. Recharge 5. Health 5%.

Now it's fair. Casters can counter rangers now.

erk · Dec 17, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

I want to see attribute sweeping changes, I am not talking about 5 skill change hey we're done, I want to see entire attribute lines being buffed/nerfed, there is too many USELESS elites and too many USELESS skills.

i want to see more than 100 skills viable in GvG.

thnx

Agreed that there are too many ignored skills, but the reason only a few at a time get altered is that it's too hard to judge the overall effect if you do a lot of skill changes at once.

When ancestors and splinter came out nobody really used them, it's taken a while for them to grow popular, Rit/Derv runners are pretty new to the meta. So you make a change and it takes the GvG community a long time, usually many months, to get round to a particular build. LoD is still quite useful in terms of energy, but you need something like a Me/Mo to get the cast rate back up, so when it was nerfed lots of alternatives got tried. People are still evaluating party heal strategy and that's just one skill! Tinker with 100 and it's like hurricane hitting a city, it will take ages to get back in balance and workable. I don't mind Izzy's bi-monthly update strategy, it keeps a bit of sanity and discussion going.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

Keep magebane as it is, just bring [skill]Wail of Doom[/skill] to curse.

Energy 10. Recharge 5. Health 5%.

Now it's fair. Casters can counter rangers now.

I wouldn't want to try and catch a Ranger skill with that!

Riotgear · Dec 17, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

Keep magebane as it is, just bring [skill]Wail of Doom[/skill] to curse.

Energy 10. Recharge 5. Health 5%.

Now it's fair. Casters can counter rangers now.

Ironically I think this is one of the most insightful posts on the Magebane problem. :P

I propose a similar for Warmonger's, let's make Shield Bash's recharge 2 seconds.

Quote:

Still, if I compare the current state of GW with the state it was in when Nightfall just got released, I'm quite content.

If I compare burnt toast to corned shit, burnt toast still tastes bad.

jayce · Dec 17, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Reckless Haste - I know, I know, but Curses guys are pretty much unplayable right now; Reckless (and Price) were linchpin skills before the changes and without them Curse Necros are straight up inferior to Mesmers in pretty much every respect. This skill, as well as Price, need more fiddling with.

Reckless Haste - probably when Reckless haste ends, you suffer from weakness or disable the next missed attack skill and Reckless Haste ends on disability might work. but, even in its current form, its still a good skill. if you're lucky enough to catch more than one target foe with it, then you've done your job even though its used mainly to delay the most threating (usually single) target first. this is one of those skills that even if you were to buff it, i'm not sure exactly where and how they would do it.

Price of Failure - i always thought that this skill should mimic Insidious Parasite, perhaps increase chance to miss to 33%/50% while decreasing duration to 6...11...12 and recharge to 12. in its current state, Price of Failure alone takes too long before you start seeing any benefit because of the 25% chance to miss. you have to always use some other skill with it to increase that chance to miss. pretty steep price to pay even without its 15 energy cost just to delay one target foe.

Jayce Of Underworld

Turbobusa · Dec 17, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Yes please buff wail of doom. That way I can lock 2 melee + one more ad vitam eternam

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 17, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

I don't mind a buff to Heal Sig in theory, but I don't think it will have any noticeable effect on the meta. Warriors can get the same effect as a 1s Heal Sig with Natural Healing right now, and it hasn't made solo-splitting any more viable.

The reality is, skirmish teams without dedicate healers lose to skirmish teams with dedicated healers, and a few self-heal buffs aren't going to change that. Previously, you could get around that limitation on a Mending Touch W/Mo by just running around everywhere and causing mismatches, but with Cripshot providing the uber-snare that's no longer a viable option.

About the Curses line - do not buff this. It is a bad idea.

Ancestors' Rage is an interesting skill. It's hugely overpowered compared to every other DD, but I find myself liking the game better when casters are able to provide strong damage support in a balanced build. With interrupts so powerful and player skill increased across all levels, it isn't like you can reasonably expect to get off 2s Lightning Orbs against good teams. At the same time, you don't want powerful 1s DDs because that promotes caster spike, something the mechanics of Ancestor's Rage get around fairly well.

DarkNecrid · Dec 17, 2007, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Agreed that there are too many ignored skills, but the reason only a few at a time get altered is that it's too hard to judge the overall effect if you do a lot of skill changes at once.

Couldn't be worse than NF release.

bungusmaximus · Dec 17, 2007, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Ancestors' Rage is an interesting skill. It's hugely overpowered compared to every other DD, but I find myself liking the game better when casters are able to provide strong damage support in a balanced build. With interrupts so powerful and player skill increased across all levels, it isn't like you can reasonably expect to get off 2s Lightning Orbs against good teams. At the same time, you don't want powerful 1s DDs because that promotes caster spike, something the mechanics of Ancestor's Rage get around fairly well.

Nice way to look at stuff. I never hated ancestor's to begin with. Warmonger's is much worse imho. I like the rit class anyways, it gets balanced better and better and instead of retarded spirit poop they are mostly used for more active play nowadays. Still the duration on warmonger's needs a nerf, it's cast->forget, I don't like cast->forget.

DreamWind · Dec 17, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

I'm a bit tired of people saying "Iway is OP, but good teams can beat it". People have been saying that for years and it never made much sense. If good teams beat it and bad teams lose to it (the same position iway has always been in), then it is not overpowered.

Magebane is broken in RA/TA though. I would say nerf it, but the game isn't balanced around RA/TA so maybe not.

bungusmaximus · Dec 17, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Magebane is broken in RA/TA though. I would say nerf it, but the game isn't balanced around RA/TA so maybe not.

If you don't nerf it you actually say: TA sucks, get over it. It's too harsh imho. Besides, you don't always need to look where a skill is run to acknowledge design flaws in it. Magebane lets bad rangers win games. That's a bad thing regardless where it's ran.

Keithark · Dec 17, 2007, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Rangers overall have access to too many unblockable interrupts for 4v4. Usually there are one or two viable targets so he camps on one and it's GG.

Recharge nerfs. on Punsishing Shot, Magebane.

Also I agree that something has to be done about Dancing Daggers, it's too popular in 4v4, removing the lead attack status is a good idea, and up the energy cost to make it similar to other skills that cause 90-100 damage eg. if an Earth Ele was to do 90-100 damage with Stone Daggers it would cost them least 10 energy to achieve a similar result.

And what are those? Are you calling one "too many". Because the only unblockable I have seen that has had any use is Magebane

Also what is the big problem with Magebane? is it the unblockable? Mesmers got lots of those but don't hear anyone bitching about them. I don't care myself as I usually run burning arrow or cripshop in GvG but did get to go against a skirmishing ranger last night in gvg with magebane and powned him

ensoriki · Dec 17, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Dancing Daggers nerfs aren't actually needed.
Thats about all there is to it.

bungusmaximus · Dec 17, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

Also what is the big problem with Magebane? is it the unblockable? Mesmers got lots of those but don't hear anyone bitching about them. I don't care myself as I usually run burning arrow or cripshop in GvG but did get to go against a skirmishing ranger last night in gvg with magebane and powned him

Mesmers usually have only one shot at things, magebane rangers can spam away happily without too much of a drawback. Mesmers don't have natural stride, so they can be pressured accordingly when they become a PITA anyway. Mes spamming diversion and pleak? stick a warrior in his face and he will calm down soon enough, rangers are usually too nimble for that.

stoelen · Dec 17, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

And what are those? Are you calling one "too many". Because the only unblockable I have seen that has had any use is Magebane

Also what is the big problem with Magebane? is it the unblockable? Mesmers got lots of those but don't hear anyone bitching about them. I don't care myself as I usually run burning arrow or cripshop in GvG but did get to go against a skirmishing ranger last night in gvg with magebane and powned him

Ofcourse not, Mesmers are soft targets with 60 AL, easely killed and bashed on. rangers have more armor. Also mesmers need alot more energy (10 energy for PD) Rangers need about 2-3 energy for Magebane. It's insane. Those 2 classes are definatly uncompareble, they were made for other purposes. As said earlyer, magebane can fit very easely in any ranger bar... Oh and again, pd also disables all other skills of its own for an amount of time were you can't cast other things. Magebane doesn't after magebane you can just keep poisining and stuff, its not compareble and yes Magebane IS overpowered, the 10 energy will probably reduce its spammability a little.