Curse

red orc · Jan 13, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

So I guess players in guilds like StS and apr have no idea what they are doing then. And besides, you can split with warriors. People have been doing that for 2 years, no idea why you forgot about that. YAA has always been on warriors, why do you bring up putting it on runners?

I also saw top 100 playing 8 necro teams, using life stealing spike, so what ?
Let me rewrite my post, cause it was not clear enough:

A warrior in the flagstand area cannot use this skill cause everybody are too close together.

A warrior cannot kill an RT flag runner using it. And some more explanation: The RT will just use WOW and ansestor to inflict more damage to the warrior than the warrior can inflict on him.

A warrior cannot kill a water ele runner using it. cause the water ele will keep casting snares so the warrior will not get to him.

A warrior at VOD with it cannot use it and has a huge disadvantage cmpared to an Eviscarade warrior. So your party loose due to lack of damage.

DutchSmurf · Jan 13, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

A warrior cannot kill an RT flag runner using it. And some more explanation: The RT will just use WOW and ansestor to inflict more damage to the warrior than the warrior can inflict on him.

A warrior cannot kill a water ele runner using it. cause the water ele will keep casting snares so the warrior will not get to him.

That is why you either take an interrupt on your warrior or team up with someone else who can take care of the interrupting. It of course works best on certain maps, but with the lack of Mending Touch on runners, it is just as effective as it was earlier.
Also just for your information, YAA usually is run on sword warriors. So you replace Dragon Slash with a snare. Which, if you want to move around a lot, isn't a bad thing at all.
And just to show how your argument doesn't work. Eviscerate is an useless elite. A warrior cannot kill an RT flag runner using it. And some more explanation: The RT will just use WOW and ansestor to inflict more damage to the warrior than the warrior can inflict on him.
Only part of your argument that does make sense is the VoD part. But that is a choice you make.

yule · Jan 14, 2008, 12:57 AM // 00:57

If you are having to take someone with interrupts to stop a flag runner anyway, why not just take a cripshot with the war and not gimp your frontline?

Plus, YAA wont do shit against a runner rit. All i would do is stand by an archer, get a war to run or something while i kill your theif/you. Alternatively i would kite you into my NPCs, while a cripshot makes his way back and takes you to peices.

You would be better off running a cripshot with sloth hunter/screaming for a gank. Even a BA with pindown would be more useful

red orc · Jan 14, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

That is why you either take an interrupt on your warrior or team up with someone else who can take care of the interrupting. It of course works best on certain maps, but with the lack of Mending Touch on runners, it is just as effective as it was earlier.
Also just for your information, YAA usually is run on sword warriors. So you replace Dragon Slash with a snare. Which, if you want to move around a lot, isn't a bad thing at all.
And just to show how your argument doesn't work. Eviscerate is an useless elite. A warrior cannot kill an RT flag runner using it. And some more explanation: The RT will just use WOW and ansestor to inflict more damage to the warrior than the warrior can inflict on him.
Only part of your argument that does make sense is the VoD part. But that is a choice you make.

Your argument as to Evis-Warior would have been correct, had I said my warrior is going ganking.
But Evis-Warrior is god in flagstand groups, in split groups and in VOD.
While YAA-Warrior sux in flagstand groups, split groups and in VOD. The only place he may do someting good is in ganking runners situation. But considering current flag-runners, he cannot even harm them. So what good is he ?

DutchSmurf · Jan 14, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

Your argument as to Evis-Warior would have been correct, had I said my warrior is going ganking.
But Evis-Warrior is god in flagstand groups, in split groups and in VOD.
While YAA-Warrior sux in flagstand groups, split groups and in VOD. The only place he may do someting good is in ganking runners situation. But considering current flag-runners, he cannot even harm them. So what good is he ?

So basically your argument is that warriors shouldn't go after flagrunners ever? Since for going after flagrunners YAA is far better then Evis-warriors. If a YAA warrior can't hurt a flagrunner, an Evis-warrior can't either. If a warrior can't even hurt a flagrunner, he has even less chance against a complete team. Then why use warriors at all? Answer of course is that YAA warriors (or any warrior) do hurt. More then cripshotrangers for sure. And then YAA's snare is a good choice.

RhanoctJocosa · Jan 14, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

I also saw top 100 playing 8 necro teams, using life stealing spike, so what ?
Let me rewrite my post, cause it was not clear enough:

A warrior in the flagstand area cannot use this skill cause everybody are too close together.

A warrior cannot kill an RT flag runner using it. And some more explanation: The RT will just use WOW and ansestor to inflict more damage to the warrior than the warrior can inflict on him.

A warrior cannot kill a water ele runner using it. cause the water ele will keep casting snares so the warrior will not get to him.

A warrior at VOD with it cannot use it and has a huge disadvantage cmpared to an Eviscarade warrior. So your party loose due to lack of damage.

Damage at VoD is irrelevant when the game is already finished. Also, if you want to kill a flagger you won't just send a warrior. If you want to slow them down, though, I don't see why an YAA would be a bad choice (unless you're stupid enough to remove your cripple by hitting through WoR).

Zabe · Jan 14, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

Your argument as to Evis-Warior would have been correct, had I said my warrior is going ganking.
But Evis-Warrior is god in flagstand groups, in split groups and in VOD.
While YAA-Warrior sux in flagstand groups, split groups and in VOD. The only place he may do someting good is in ganking runners situation. But considering current flag-runners, he cannot even harm them. So what good is he ?

Any kind of an warrior and flagger against eachother, the warrior will win. Ofcourse if the flagger is godlike skilled and warrior is healinghands wammo its different, but I think you get the point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by yule

Plus, YAA wont do shit against a runner rit. All i would do is stand by an archer, get a war to run or something while i kill your theif/you. Alternatively i would kite you into my NPCs, while a cripshot makes his way back and takes you to peices.

So the cripple which gets you snared, which a rit flagger can't remove, and you get your face bashed in does nothing? And the warrior is gonna die to your wand + AR? I don't think so. And If the warrior makes you turtle in, it will secure boosts so mission accomplished anyway. And if there is another warrior coming? YAA him and he is unable to do anything to you, basicly you can dance around him and he won't even do damage to you when he gets a hit on you.

TheOneMephisto · Jan 14, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

So basically your argument is that warriors shouldn't go after flagrunners ever? Since for going after flagrunners YAA is far better then Evis-warriors. If a YAA warrior can't hurt a flagrunner, an Evis-warrior can't either. If a warrior can't even hurt a flagrunner, he has even less chance against a complete team. Then why use warriors at all? Answer of course is that YAA warriors (or any warrior) do hurt. More then cripshotrangers for sure. And then YAA's snare is a good choice.

If a warrior wants a decent chance at killing a runner, then they're have to have a cripshot or other support to come along.

However, warrior's can still delay and mess with runners alone, but having the dual KD from bull's strike and shock is going to help a lot more than having YAA if the runner/other team knows what they're doing.

Winstar · Jan 14, 2008, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

So basically your argument is that warriors shouldn't go after flagrunners ever? Since for going after flagrunners YAA is far better then Evis-warriors. If a YAA warrior can't hurt a flagrunner, an Evis-warrior can't either. If a warrior can't even hurt a flagrunner, he has even less chance against a complete team. Then why use warriors at all? Answer of course is that YAA warriors (or any warrior) do hurt. More then cripshotrangers for sure. And then YAA's snare is a good choice.

Are the people playing your eviscerate bars utter trash?

At the stand there is no question that Eviscerate bars are extremely effective and far more effective than YAA can ever hope of being. If you're doing your job and switching targets effectively and maximizing your damage you're going to score kills and far more effectively than a YAA pile...so long as your midline is also doing their job which is required no matter what your warrior bar is.

In general the person on your team best suited for harassing flaggers, if you have one, is your cripshot. Thats part of the reason you should have it in your build. In this way you don't gimp out your melee with things like YAA. In split situations your warrior is generally going to be part of a split team with your ranger and runner etc. In this situation where you have support and snares you're better having a warrior that can kill more efficiently which an eviscerate can. I also hear shock and bulls are pretty good at stopping people from going places. Furthermore, its not like you're YAA is ever going to accomplish something on its own against anyone reasonably competent.

All that said, people have been effectively pushing runners with warriors with eviscerates for a long time now...so ah...this is all premised on a series of false assumptions anyway.

JR · Jan 14, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Eviscerate with Bull's/Natural Healing/Harriers/DChop is pretty fearsome on split, if you have a semi competent warrior. It's also obviously solid at the stand.

Yichi · Jan 14, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

Any kind of an warrior and flagger against eachother, the warrior will win...

Depends on what kind of flagger the warrior is against and where this is taking place.

xhappy feetx · Jan 14, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

if the flagger isnt a idiot, no warrior can kill him in a 1v1 scenario, however, if he trys to run and gets bull'd, he deserves to die.....

Winstar · Jan 14, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by xhappy feetx

if the flagger isnt a idiot, no warrior can kill him in a 1v1 scenario, however, if he trys to run and gets bull'd, he deserves to die.....

also, the number of times I see runners wait until someone is frenzying in there face and shocking/dchopping etc to try and cast a weapon on themselves is pretty astounding.

Vanquisher · Jan 14, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by xhappy feetx

if the flagger isnt a idiot, no warrior can kill him in a 1v1 scenario, however, if he trys to run and gets bull'd, he deserves to die.....

This is so wrong because of so many reasons I'm not even going to try and explain them all.

iamagod1 · Jan 14, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Yeah there is a lot of talk about a yaa warrior being used to gank, and i totally don't care about that at all. Stick to the point of the thread.

And in my opinion a yaa war would be good at ganking, but its really a waste of a character slot. Id rather use our cripshot ranger. Could a yaa kill a rt flagger, possibly if he doesnt play well or retreat ever.

Could a yaa kill a water snare runner, only if he doesnt use his water snares till the yaa is alrdy hitting him.

Could a yaa kill a hb heal party spam runner, only if he doesnt have mending touch.

You get the point.

Shooshu · Jan 19, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

1) Tell your midline to shut down there defences.
2) Pressure them so their monks will have to heal = lose energy.
3) Do constant spikes like every 20 secs.

xhappy feetx · Jan 22, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winstar

also, the number of times I see runners wait until someone is frenzying in there face and shocking/dchopping etc to try and cast a weapon on themselves is pretty astounding.

Its pretty ridiculous... "ups they saw me, might wanna cast prot now"

a GOOD flag running guide courtesey of yours truly....

http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/vi...t=4150&start=0

zling · Jan 22, 2008, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

YAA has been fairly useless since Mending Touch became popular.

Anything but Melandru as a Dervish's Elite is pretty much garbage.

this is just close mindness. whats wrong with Wounding Strike on a Dervish? it's great on a pressure build, decent for a spike. whats wrong with EDA Dervish as a [support] char, to replace a BSurge Ele?

Quote:

sins are absolutely not front line characters. And I can't believe you are seriously suggesting Shatter Enchantment be taken on one. I will assume instead that it is Shattering Assault, which is also not brilliant. If you are running a sin then you want them to split, period, so you want AoD.

yes I did mean Shattering Assault

, corrected myself.
and I said that the Sin is a half front line half mid line char, not a frontliner by any means... consider him full mid line if you want, doesnt matter how you call it, we mean the same thing...
and yes this sin can gank but can also do other things. as for ganking, AoD isnt mandatory for ganking. it's great for it but not mandatory.

TheOneMephisto · Jan 22, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

and I said that the Sin is a half front line half mid line char, not a frontliner by any means... consider him full mid line if you want, doesnt matter how you call it, we mean the same thing...
and yes this sin can gank but can also do other things. as for ganking, AoD isnt mandatory for ganking. it's great for it but not mandatory.

You can't exactly call someone a midliner if he has to be in the front lines to do his job. By my definition, anything that has to be up in the enemy's midline/backline in order to work is a frontliner, and a sin doesn't have the survivability to do that.

And AoD is probably the best skill you can have on a gank period.

Razz L Dazzle · Jan 22, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

this is just close mindness. whats wrong with Wounding Strike on a Dervish? it's great on a pressure build, decent for a spike. whats wrong with EDA Dervish as a [support] char, to replace a BSurge Ele?

Everyone is close minded it seems is your argument. Maybe if you ever played competitively at a high level you'd have an understanding of why players is good guilds complain about block-way etc. If you think the answer is that everyon is unwilling to try anything new, then take your guild to the top of the ladder with your suggestions, otherwise shut-up and stop posting.