Curse

Sinful Doom · Jan 22, 2008, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Hop on Obs, I see more teams with it than without it. Maybe you just don't see it because they hardly ever need to recast it. :P

Usually something like:
[skill]Song of Restoration[/skill][skill]Ballad of Restoration[/skill][skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill][skill]"Shields Up!"[/skill][skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Spear of Lightning[/skill][skill]Mending Refrain[/skill] Rez

What an incredibly boring bar. I'm fairly certain I could teach my neighbors dog to run that effectively.

TheOneMephisto · Jan 22, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinful Doom

What an incredibly boring bar. I'm fairly certain I could teach my neighbors dog to run that effectively.

Or write a script.

c+space, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,
repeat

Zuranthium · Jan 22, 2008, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Hop on Obs, I see more teams with it than without it. Maybe you just don't see it because they hardly ever need to recast it.

Lol, no, when I watched nobody had health regen.

But, as pointed out, this is apparently something that like ALL of the Euro players are doing now.

~Z

Riotgear · Jan 22, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

c+space, 1, 2, 3, 4,
repeat
when someone calls a spike, press T, 6

Fixed that for you. And yes, it is about the most boring bar I've ever seen not run on a hero.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinful Doom

What an incredibly boring bar. I'm fairly certain I could teach my neighbors dog to run that effectively.

Like I said....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

That said, motivation/tactics Paragons are like the whole meta wrapped up in one embarassing package, please give us some better party healing options so I never have to see one again.

Sometimes it's not a rez, I've seen all sorts of weird stuff wind up there, GTFE (with Lightning replaced with Vicious), Wild Throw, or Harrier Toss.

Ensign · Jan 23, 2008, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

I just got protests about how it would fail against people who split. Guess...not?

People don't split anymore.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 23, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by l Teh Mighty Warrior l

Yea, this is completely untrue. There are only two top 100 american spike teams that run spike, that's us (HGH) and rawr. As for the euro teams, I can think of at least 15 off the top of my head.

There's hardly any top 100 American guilds that play, I've seen deer run teleport spike and both vibe and ei have ran air eles recently.

Do name the 15 top 100 euro guilds that run spike though, other than [sup], [SoaP] and [Yet] I can't think of any..

Quote:

On the mending refrain debate, I haven't even heard of running mending refrain on a paragon...what's the exact bar for this and when has everyone started running it. There are only a few instances in which I would consider running mending refrain, only against pressure style teams, which I can't think of very many in the first place except for the obvious few.

It's the best party healing option atm (pretty much the only one).

DutchSmurf · Jan 23, 2008, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Do name the 15 top 100 euro guilds that run spike though, other than [sup], [SoaP] and [Yet] I can't think of any..

There are at least 2 bloodspike guilds in the top 100, do they count?

l Teh Mighty Warrior l · Jan 23, 2008, 03:27 AM // 03:27

[sup], [SoaP], [Yet], [uF], Storm Hogs, [KK], [BSP], [Tard], [vD] (Your definition of spike is a air ele.), just to name a few. I don't keep up with any of the euro guilds, so I'm definitely missing several.

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Jan 23, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

People don't split anymore.

LATELY i have noticed that npc advantage = win at VoD?

Ensign · Jan 23, 2008, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh [prefession]-zorz

LATELY i have noticed that npc advantage = win at VoD?

You have to weigh NPC advantage against Paragon advantage. I consider Paragon advantage to be about 4-5 archers with current VoD mechanics, maybe more.

Double Pact · Jan 23, 2008, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Well the thing is, that a paragon doesn't mean that you can't split anymore. A european balanced with Cripshot+Evis (or Dragon Slash) is actually not too bad at splitting and still has that paragon for vod.
Btw sup, tard, Sink, KK, vD, etc run balanced dealing pressure by minispiking, only occasional fullspikes. (I'd call that balanced and not spike...).

Without Mending Touch, running a B Surge would give guilds an advantage in split, but a ranger who can remove blind faster than the ele can apply it made the b surge useless in/against splits --> Paragon ownz, even if you plan to split

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 23, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by l Teh Mighty Warrior l

[sup], [SoaP], [Yet], [uF], Storm Hogs, [KK], [BSP], [Tard], [vD] (Your definition of spike is a air ele.), just to name a few. I don't keep up with any of the euro guilds, so I'm definitely missing several.

uF runs mostly pressure builds, with P, R, Me/E midline, Sink runs around the map and generally splits at vod, KK I have no idea what they run, they're terrible anyway so no one cares, BSP has been death for months, Tard runs P, R, Me/E midline, vD is dead but they also ran P, R, Me/E midline ever since they realized that party healing is kind of useful.

Yue · Jan 23, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Originally when you're splitting and collapsing, you give yourself a short time where you can powerplay the opponent from simply having more people at the battle. The motivation paragon greatly reduces the effectiveness of collapsing, since it can allow your stand team to tank the added damage for enough time till the rest of their team arrive.

And just because a team is running a paragon doesn't mean they run pressure. It's there for defense. Real pressure wouldn't be 9 in spear mastery.

Burton2000 · Jan 23, 2008, 04:09 PM // 16:09

I think virtually every paragon i've played against,in and out top100,has mending refrain. Usually dropped for ballad as its just unremovable being the big advantage of it.

Ensign · Jan 23, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Pact

Well the thing is, that a paragon doesn't mean that you can't split anymore.

Not strictly. Practically, between a Mesmer that doesn't split well and a Paragon that doesn't split well, you're reduced to the same tired 3 man Warrior/Ranger/Rit split that everyone has been playing against for a couple years now. It's good to split retarded spike teams but not much else. Every reasonably prepared team can deal with that split without thinking, and I can't remember the last time a team lost 8v8 but won with a 3 man split in a somewhat fair fight.

A few teams run split heavy builds, but the standard build that most teams run just pushes flags with Warrior + Ranger; there really isn't anything complex going on anymore. Certainly not enough running around in a matchup between two good teams to make Mending Refrain bad.

Snow Bunny · Jan 23, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

It's the best party healing option atm (pretty much the only one).

More like a not so crappy version of mending that can be kept up with essentially no drawback.

Div · Jan 23, 2008, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yue

And just because a team is running a paragon doesn't mean they run pressure. It's there for defense. Real pressure wouldn't be 9 in spear mastery.

Agreed. It's hard to get a strict definition of pressure vs spike.

And Mitch, keep the America vs Euro drama out of here. Go troll some recruitment threads on QQ forums if that'll make you happy ^_^

l Teh Mighty Warrior l · Jan 23, 2008, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Mitch your perception of spike is completely wrong. Spike has nothing to do with the build, it has to do with the playstyle. Granted, the build should be designed to spike. According to this, the ratio of euro spike guilds to american spike guilds is much higher.

On topic, mending refrain is +4 regen, unremovable, and permanent. In the long run it would definately relieve pressure, whether its from physical attacks or just to counter poison spread. The motigon in conjunction with the rit pot would be all the party heals you need. With 160sh from the paragon every 15 (?) seconds, +4 regen, and +75 from the rit every 20 (without factoring in fast recharge), that's at least 300 health every 20 seconds. Add that to all the block and damage migitation in the build, and it becomes very hard to score any kills without spiking or splitting.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 24, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

More like a not so crappy version of mending that can be kept up with essentially no drawback.

Call it what you want, it doesnt change the fact that it's pretty much the only viable source of party healing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yue

And just because a team is running a paragon doesn't mean they run pressure. It's there for defense. Real pressure wouldn't be 9 in spear mastery.

We run 11-12 spear mastery on our paragon I think, it's really not that big of a difference in damage down from 13-14, the main difference lies in the lack of a DW, you can still pressure perfectly fine with the bitch paragon bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by l Teh Mighty Warrior l

Mitch your perception of spike is completely wrong. Spike has nothing to do with the build, it has to do with the playstyle. Granted, the build should be designed to spike. According to this, the ratio of euro spike guilds to american spike guilds is much higher.

It's much harder to pressure with an air ele over a paragon on your midline, even in pressure builds people still focus damage to score kills generally, I wouldn't call this spiking though.

We really rarely run into pure spike builds/guilds in euro times, and I've seen several American guilds run pure spike builds recently.

I don't really care for the 'Euro vs American drama' but I just thought it was funny that a lot of Americans (e.g. everyone in deer) aways complain about euros running spike builds and then they run them themselves while most euro guilds run more pressure oriented builds.

Div · Jan 24, 2008, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

I don't really care for the 'Euro vs American drama' but I just thought it was funny that a lot of Americans (e.g. everyone in deer) aways complain about euros running spike builds and then they run them themselves while most euro guilds run more pressure oriented builds.

Hi kids, remember analogies?

DeeR:America

a) magebane:spam
b) SoG:Europe
c) eE:Europe
d) diversion:spam
e) both b and c

I think you get the point. One guild's behavior isn't representative of a region, so who cares?

Edit: Time to drop the topic? This is about the skill update. Any future posts will get pew pew'ed.