Curse

Floski · Jan 26, 2008, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Are you serious? The most popular gank class these days is a fire E/D.

Riotgear · Jan 26, 2008, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floski

Are you serious? The most popular gank class these days is a fire E/D.

I think you missed a key word in my post, you might want to reread it.

(HINT: The second one.)

The original statement was that fire eles are the only ones really hurt by this. The refute was that it hurts all attributes, and hurts other classes as well. The question is: Who else, other than fire eles, actually spends time killing NPCs with elemental damage through any other method than flooding them with AOE?

Vaga · Jan 26, 2008, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Pretty sure people call spikes on npcs in the base and most eles tend to contribute

Double Pact · Jan 26, 2008, 08:43 AM // 08:43

I've heard som ppl saying, that splinter will soon be nerfed. That's basicaly a good thing, but I hope Anet considers, that Splinter is only the tip of the iceberg (can you say that in english??) and that there are many other serious problems in GW balance at the moment.

- One point is the balanced vs split question. Sure, split is good; but Naptitude split isn't good (my opinion) now with a splinter weapon nerf without a nerf on the ineptitude mesmers, you will take the last weapon of a balanced against a naptitude split. This is hopefully not Anets goal.

- Another point is the party healing: This problem should be solved at the same time, the partygon takes away too much flexibility and turns balanced vs. balanced into a spike battle without anything happening until vod.

- Third point is passive defense: VoD changes haven't seriously weakened Blockway: Aegis, Ward, Partygon are still way too strong (izzy had some good suggestions on these on wiki)

- Active defense + Red bars go up: Both these have to be buffed a lot at the same time that passive defense is nerfed. This will still enable monks to keep up pressure, so that gvg doesn't turn into a 3 min game called "Who drops first?"

- Possibly, you'd have to adjust some red bars go down skills, because of the passive defense nerf (ancestors, etc)

Ensign · Jan 26, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Simply nerfing Splinter Weapon in a way that balances it makes a whole lot more sense than nerfing Splinter Weapon to do elemental damage and then buffing up archers to resist that damage. One of these is a self-contained solution that does not interfere with other parts of the game; the other has a whole slew of consequences.

I suggest a significant recharge nerf, and possibly removing a strike off the top end as well.

Vaga · Jan 26, 2008, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Simply nerfing Splinter Weapon in a way that balances it makes a whole lot more sense than nerfing Splinter Weapon to do elemental damage and then buffing up archers to resist that damage. One of these is a self-contained solution that does not interfere with other parts of the game; the other has a whole slew of consequences.

I suggest a significant recharge nerf, and possibly removing a strike off the top end as well.

I think the main point in his nerfing logic is that just nerfing splinter will mean the skill is either still better than other aoe alternatives so everyone will bring it or it will be worse than other aoe alternatives and people will be forced to bring something like a fire ele.

Sinful Doom · Jan 26, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by langola

No, giving archers elemental armor affects all forms: cold,fire,earth,air (like ranger armor), and not just elementalists either.

I am talking from a mass aoe aspect. I dont see many water ele's blowing up groups of archers. Same goes for bsurge ele's and never to be seen earth ele's in gvg.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 26, 2008, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

I think the main point in his nerfing logic is that just nerfing splinter will mean the skill is either still better than other aoe alternatives so everyone will bring it or it will be worse than other aoe alternatives and people will be forced to bring something like a fire ele.

You're not forced to bring a fire ele as fire eles can actually be shut down quite well, pre-splinter weapon far from every team brought AoE skills besides maybe Energy Surge.

Splinter is so insane because you dont have to be in range of enemies to put it up and it cannot be removed so it's basically near impossible to stop.

A recharge nerf would definately help, but I'm not convinced it would be enough.

On a different note, the increased NPC damage is completely retarded, I got hit for a 195 damage Precision Shot the other day..

Wildi · Jan 26, 2008, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

I imagine if the changes to Splinter Weapon prove ineffective, alternatives will be explored and NPC AI may be looked at again.

instead of destroying splinter weapon for every gw player, maybe change vod that the damage buffs do not affect armor ignoring damage

DutchSmurf · Jan 26, 2008, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Simply nerfing Splinter Weapon in a way that balances it makes a whole lot more sense than nerfing Splinter Weapon to do elemental damage and then buffing up archers to resist that damage. One of these is a self-contained solution that does not interfere with other parts of the game; the other has a whole slew of consequences.

I suggest a significant recharge nerf, and possibly removing a strike off the top end as well.

I think that Anet is a bit afraid of the reaction of the PvE crowd. VoD isn't the only place where things get farmed with Splinter Weapon after all. And although we all agree that PvE shouldn't effect GvG balance, we often saw it does. At this moment the best solution probably is removing at least half of the archers. Add some knights if you really want to have a set number of npcs. Knights don't ball up as nicely as archers, so that should solve most of the problems. Or maybe give the archers different kinds of bows. Like 3 with a shortbow, 3 with a recurve bow and 3 with a longbow. Not sure if that will work, but it might make them split into smaller groups.

Longasc · Jan 26, 2008, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

I'm by no means GvG expert but what if Splinter was changed to deal dmg only if the attack is BLOCKED? Of course, to target and adjacent foes, and with dmg adjusted accordingly.
Would that help with NPCs, or not really?

The skill was like that in its first version after Factions release. It was a situational skill and saw no use in PvE or PvP either.

It took people quite long to figure out to use it at VoD and needed several Ritualist re-balancings before it was used.

They need to find a balanced solution. Too many skills got totally destroyed for the "greater good", it is awful.

Maybe a solution is to create some kind of hybrid of these two skills:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Splinter_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Splin...r_of_Hordes%29

Medion · Jan 26, 2008, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Or maybe give the archers different kinds of bows. Like 3 with a shortbow, 3 with a recurve bow and 3 with a longbow. Not sure if that will work, but it might make them split into smaller groups.

That's actually quite a good idea I think Dutchsmurf. It won't solve the problem on its own, but may improve the situation a bit.

Vaga · Jan 26, 2008, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

You're not forced to bring a fire ele as fire eles can actually be shut down quite well, pre-splinter weapon far from every team brought AoE skills besides maybe Energy Surge.

Splinter is so insane because you dont have to be in range of enemies to put it up and it cannot be removed so it's basically near impossible to stop.

Yeah not many people brought AoE skills and that's why they lost to iQ in tournament finals. Gsac/metshower is about as hard to stop as splinter if not harder and achieves the same thing.

Snow Bunny · Jan 26, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

The elemental protection wouldn't really be all that beneficial in my opinion. I contend with Langola that it'd affect too much and in a particularly bad way.

Just rework ancestors, including energy costs and the like. The pathing of the NPC's should be better as well. And splinter should deal a sort of damage, I don't care what kind it is, but as it is, it's non-typed, and thus ignores armor. Making it slashing or elemental might be nice.

X Black Chaos X · Jan 26, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

I know you can't rewind time and plan everything over again, but really pvp would be alot better of if it had it's own skills seperate from pve skills. this way nerfs one side wouldn't affect the other. And maybe ( a big one) for the different arenas in PvP a unique skill set could be used. (places like RA and TA would have the same set) I think these ideas should be incorporated in GW2 to avoid the problems with nerfing skills now.

ensoriki · Jan 26, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

but really pvp would be alot better of if it had it's own skills seperate from pve skills

Meh if they were ever seperate one side of the game would most likely die (my bets pve) from being stagnant.
erf things regardless of PvE, nerfs and buffs that affect pvp are generally a good thing for them anyways (not A-nets fault if PvE wont accept that >.>)

Anyways Not doing things because of PvE is kinda silly, anyways. PvE'rs forget about the nerfs anyways, and just go "Oh I remember the one time, we had Prot Bond and stuff..."

dbf87 · Jan 26, 2008, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Meh if they were ever seperate one side of the game would most likely die (my bets pve) from being stagnant.
erf things regardless of PvE, nerfs and buffs that affect pvp are generally a good thing for them anyways (not A-nets fault if PvE wont accept that >.>)

Are you kidding? PvE'ers love things being stagnant, it allows them to farm most efficiently.

ensoriki · Jan 26, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbf87

Are you kidding? PvE'ers love things being stagnant, it allows them to farm most efficiently.

Meh, and the farmers can be dealt with kinda, by better quest rewards in which case they won't have much excuses to farm.

and then pvp can get skill balances with less complaining from farmers >.>
____________

Pet's should be more useful or something...AI response fix?

X Black Chaos X · Jan 26, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Actually anet does an excellent job of combining PvE and PvP (AB's that affect the map in factions and the way HoH used to be set up) So i don't think that one of the side would just die off. If PvE get's bored of UW and FoW and they don't want to go to PvP then maybe a new area that isn't perdictable and changes very frequently(meaning AI and enemy movenment) could be implemented.

erk · Jan 26, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Simply nerfing Splinter Weapon in a way that balances it makes a whole lot more sense than nerfing Splinter Weapon to do elemental damage and then buffing up archers to resist that damage. One of these is a self-contained solution that does not interfere with other parts of the game; the other has a whole slew of consequences.

I suggest a significant recharge nerf, and possibly removing a strike off the top end as well.

That would address the symptom but not solve the problem, which is clumping archers. An easy way to solve clumping, is to change say every second archer for a knight which then runs in to melee, that would leave spaces between the archers that should be enough for splinter not to reach. I don't know for certain that it would work, but I bet A.net do. At the worst you could put archers only at the very outside of the clump.