Curse

DutchSmurf · Jan 27, 2008, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

You resigned straight away? Quite, quite epic.

Not right away, think it was after 5 minutes or so. But it was over fast for sure.

Riotgear · Jan 27, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by deya

[Me] totally deserved there victory, just shows that this ultimate-meta-blockway-vodrampage-boringashell-build can be beaten.

Guildwars must have more options than ONE which you can run and actually win.

Yes, it showed it can be beaten, by another broken build. So the game is double-broken. This is an improvement?

Kaon · Jan 27, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Yes, it showed it can be beaten, by another broken build. So the game is double-broken. This is an improvement?

Huh what? So "balanced" and sinsplit are broken? This means all skills we use in gvg are broken? Crap.

Zabe · Jan 27, 2008, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Actually a lot of people care. There are shameless ones like SoG and eE, but a good amount of the community still want to have some respect for when they guest or look for new guilds. This game has always been build wars to an extent, but all the top guilds of before (evil, wm, iq, te) were capable of running many builds at a high level, whereas a lot of the sineptitude guys can only run one build, which is already easier than other builds to run.

My point is that its all the guilds at the moment who are lazy to make different builds, its "oh, this top guild plays this build in observer, so, lets we play it too!". Other fact is the tournament structure, you don't need to have ace in your sleeve in AT, like you did in world championships with EW's FoC spike and iQ's sac + meteorshower.

And the fact still stands, that as long as there will be any kind of competition, if someone wants to win, he will play what wins, that won't change. HAnD stated it right, that most teams think too much of the "we play only balanced builds" mentalitety. Ofcourse you can play only those, and you can win with those too, but at the moment, when anyone mentions balanced builds, its the same RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing shit with 2 warriors, ranger, paragon, mesmer, monks and rit flagger.

EDIT: And yes, (want to clarify it) I totally agree with you, that these guys running 1 build shouldn't be able to win if their opponents just would think a bit of themselves. If you know what you face, you should be able to beat it.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 27, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

when anyone mentions balanced builds, its the same RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing shit with 2 warriors, ranger, paragon, mesmer, monks and rit flagger.

That has everything to do with the current balance situation, Izzy apparently refuses to fix party healing and splinter weapon, so the paragon and the rit are pretty much a must, leaving very little variety in the builds that can be ran.

Zabe · Jan 27, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

That has everything to do with the current balance situation, Izzy apparently refuses to fix party healing and splinter weapon, so the paragon and the rit are pretty much a must, leaving very little variety in the builds that can be ran.

It has its own influence on it. But I don't remember any kind of build variety in the blockway meta before LoD was nerfed.

EDIT: If you count out vZ roflstomping blockwayteams with condition pressure.

Neo-LD · Jan 27, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Blockway isnt a desirable facet of the metagame either, but far less so than Sineptitude. The idea that Blockway justifies Sineptitude's existance is quite laughable.

Lorekeeper · Jan 27, 2008, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Blockway isnt a desirable facet of the metagame either, but far less so than Sineptitude. The idea that Blockway justifies Sineptitude's existance is quite laughable.

its only laughable that Anet take no steps to help shift the meta away from blockway... sineptitude is a build with all the ingredients needed to beat blockway... whether sineptitude is buttonmash or not... [Me] showed ruthless competitiveness by winning with it.

Hopefully it will give Anet yet another clear indication of the failings of GvG balance and the limitations of the current meta, considering even with recent updates to VoD mechanics and skills people are still winning with that build.

But then again Kaon would probably say that its the players failing vs sinpetitude... and i would be forced to agree with him to some extent.

Zabe · Jan 27, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

its only laughable that Anet take no steps to help shift the meta away from blockway... sineptitude is a build with all the ingredients needed to beat blockway... whether sineptitude is buttonmash or not... [Me] showed ruthless competitiveness by winning with it.

Hopefully it will give Anet yet another clear indication of the failings of GvG balance and the limitations of the current meta, considering even with recent updates to VoD mechanics and skills people are still winning with that build.

But then again Kaon would probably say that its the players failing vs sinpetitude... and i would be forced to agree with him to some extent.

It incase is people who have bad attitude in making own build, because it would require alot of testing and tweaking and other stuff. Its just so easy to copy the build from observer. And yes, people fail speccing against sineptitude.

I would agree that if you would be in a situation where the sineptitude would come behind a corner, as you wouldn't know it. But when you know 100% sure that you face it, why do people hit their head to the wall and then come to guru cry a river about it being overpowered.

JR · Jan 27, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Apparently these days if you can't easily beat something with metabalanced then it must be overpowered.

Not that I am saying there is nothing overpowered about it... but the 'top guilds' could actually TRY. Metagaming against opponents is what tournaments are about, not just headbutting with your same old 'balanced' build. The guilds who ran sineptitude had managed to build against everyone else, but nobody bothered to build against them.

lacasner · Jan 27, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Since this is kind of the thread for that, grats to Murder Za winning hero battle monthly, seriously barbs+brutal weapon+ vamp daggers hurts.

Rau · Jan 27, 2008, 07:13 PM // 19:13

90% of why sin split was so gd this weekend is cause of the fkc. VoD update. srsly ppl have the wrong idea. Archers doing 150 dmg at 20 min with 1 precision shot is just insane. archers doing 300 dmg to the lord at 21 min is just insane.

None of the skills atm are overpowered besides the way they work ( clumzi / shadowstepping etc. ) And we all know anet wont change that.

Fix the VoD back to what it was and it should be fine.

[Me] Played Really Well, they had all the conditions to their favor ( read -> map )
Yes, they only play 1 build but so do [rawr] so w/e they won we lost

GG

Kaon · Jan 27, 2008, 07:14 PM // 19:14

5 fire eles and water ele will make sinsplit explode. That is, if you know you face them.

Sinful Doom · Jan 27, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Now I know this may come as a complete shock but an assassin won the HB MAT.

tankity tank · Jan 27, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Apparently these days if you can't easily beat something with metabalanced then it must be overpowered.

Not that I am saying there is nothing overpowered about it... but the 'top guilds' could actually TRY. Metagaming against opponents is what tournaments are about, not just headbutting with your same old 'balanced' build. The guilds who ran sineptitude had managed to build against everyone else, but nobody bothered to build against them.

This amused me to no end, it's not like the concepts the sinsplit build employs are new.

Snow Bunny · Jan 27, 2008, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

5 fire eles and water ele will make sinsplit explode. That is, if you know you face them.

Yes it will.

But most people aren't retarded enough to run that flat out.

Sinsplit is still lame.

Who cares if everyone runs it, does make it any less gimmicky or lame. You can't defend a build on the basis of popularity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deya

Okay so, people should just hit there heads on wall during 18 mins of 7v7 spikefest and then flip a coin in VoD-Rampage? Now that's plain stupid and doesn't get any respect from me tbh.

Sineptitude is not instawin build, you need to run it good if you want to beat your enemy. Splitting is now a lot harder than in past - recall nerf hurt a lot and tbh people just learned to play a lot better against splitting. [Me] totally deserved there victory, just shows that this ultimate-meta-blockway-vodrampage-boringashell-build can be beaten.

Guildwars must have more options than ONE which you can run and actually win.

there was no sarcasm in my praise of you, but insult me if you like.

Sineptitude is getting close to instawin when most of the players are at a reasonably close skill level.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 27, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

It has its own influence on it. But I don't remember any kind of build variety in the blockway meta before LoD was nerfed.

The 3rd midliner could be anything, Paragon, Bsurge, Water ele, Fire ele, 2nd mes or ranger, etc and you weren't limited to just rit runners too.

Zabe · Jan 28, 2008, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

The 3rd midliner could be anything, Paragon, Bsurge, Water ele, Fire ele, 2nd mes or ranger, etc and you weren't limited to just rit runners too.

You aren't limited to rit runners atm, you just have to bring the splinter in midline somewhere, and that brings us to new problem, because splinter is the must have skill thesedays.

But yes, I agree to partyhealing packs you atleast on 1 character. In the most used build, on two.

Riotgear · Jan 28, 2008, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

its only laughable that Anet take no steps to help shift the meta away from blockway... sineptitude is a build with all the ingredients needed to beat blockway... whether sineptitude is buttonmash or not... [Me] showed ruthless competitiveness by winning with it.

People need to separate the distinction of whether not Me should run it with whether or not it is a build that is good for the game. There are two separate discussions, and the first one is barely a discussion. If it works better, and your goal is to win, then YOU RUN IT, PERIOD.

Whether it's better for the game and warrants adjustment to push things away from it is another thing, and if Sineptitude is the best build you can run at the moment, then please, for the love of God, make adjustments.

Quote:

Apparently these days if you can't easily beat something with metabalanced then it must be overpowered.

Generally-speaking, metabalanced requires a significantly higher degree of skill than degenerate button-mash builds, which is the case even now when metabalanced is in pretty bad shape.

In a game where more-skillful builds should be winning, if buttonmash is winning instead, then yeah, it's overpowered.

Although being overpowered can be the result of the build or the result of circumstance, which is more likely the situation in this case. The update was supposed to put more emphasis on splitting, yet didn't give balanced-friendly templates any better tools to do it.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 28, 2008, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

You aren't limited to rit runners atm, you just have to bring the splinter in midline somewhere, and that brings us to new problem, because splinter is the must have skill thesedays.

You ARE limited to rit runners, as you have to run a partygon to have sufficient party healing so either you run a rit runner or you don't have splinter weapon.

Bsurge + splinter at the stand and a hp runner is also an option but it's strictly worse.