Curse

Winstar · Jan 29, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

If you're out there Andrew Patrick, just wondering if there is any expectation of a map rotation for Feb ATs. We have been on this cycle for quite some time.

Andrew Patrick · Jan 29, 2008, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Rules (including map rotation) should be posted on Thursday.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jan 29, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Rules (including map rotation) should be posted on Thursday.

no more finals on wurms kthnx...

xhappy feetx · Jan 30, 2008, 12:11 AM // 00:11

that'd be nice for sure....

Winstar · Jan 30, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

thanks for the heads up

Vaga · Jan 30, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Just don't put wurms in the rotation I think most people would agree it's not that fun to play on.

Div · Jan 30, 2008, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

Just don't put wurms in the rotation I think most people would agree it's not that fun to play on.

I don't see why everyone's complaining about one specific map. Sure, it favored sineptitude much more than regular "balanced" builds, but you have to look at the tournament as a whole. Imagine if they had a rotation like frozen, nomads, wurms, burning, druids, jade. Sure, certain maps will favor splits or 8v8's and people will say they promote gimmicks, but the matter of the fact is that with that kind of rotation, it's really hard for a guild with only one build to win it all. They'd have to play through nomads (clustered 8v8 map, can kinda split and kill the side 3 archers), wurms (total split map), burning (strong 8v8 map in general), and druids (semi-balanced favored slightly towards split with ability to vine bridge gank). The strategies involved in each of the 4 maps are different, and having only one build (a spike or a split) is not going to work. The biggest problem with this monthly is that all four maps (solitude, meditation, druids, wurms) at least slightly favors splits, along with the VoD change that favors NPC advantage and stalling tactics (best accomplished by ineptitude mesmers).

Ec]-[oMaN · Jan 30, 2008, 01:46 AM // 01:46

By the way, Tournament Obs is broken atm....

Kaon · Jan 30, 2008, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Wurms is fine imo, the matches on it aren't bad and it forces people to change their playstyle.

I say keep it.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jan 30, 2008, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Wurms is fine imo, the matches on it aren't bad and it forces people to change their playstyle.

I say keep it.

Yeah keep it, when HP shrines become focal points and decide games along with a wall you can sit behind during vod does GvG great justice...

Ego · Jan 30, 2008, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

By the way, Tournament Obs is broken atm....

No, they just prioritise the Special Event games, and that means that some games has to go off the Observe list... Don't ask me why, maybe not enough storage or whatever.

When the GvG Single Elimination games goes off, the GvG Tournament Game battles will return on observe.

Vaga · Jan 30, 2008, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Wurms is fine imo, the matches on it aren't bad and it forces people to change their playstyle.

I say keep it.

By that logic jade shouldn't have been changed at all, it just forced people to change their playstyle to 8v8...

If you don't run a split build on it and the other team does you've basically lost the game as soon as you load in.

langola · Jan 30, 2008, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

By that logic jade shouldn't have been changed at all, it just forced people to change their playstyle to 8v8...

If you don't run a split build on it and the other team does you've basically lost the game as soon as you load in.

Then run a split build.

Anarandil · Jan 30, 2008, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by langola

Then run a split build.

Good one.

Seriously though, Wurms is a terrible map, it really really is.

Ensign · Jan 30, 2008, 06:03 AM // 06:03

After playing it for a couple months I feel like Wurms, while a bit different, plays rather similarly to Meditation but is much slower paced and much less lethal. Instead of the fireballs putting pressure on a team, you have the health shrine making one team very hard to kill. Also split tactics outside of the shrine are rather limited; the front footmen and the short route to the flagstand make it more difficult to put any extended pressure on a flagger, while the thief, the short route between the flagstand and the back door, and the concentration of NPCs near the front door make it rather difficult to make any real progress in the base if your opponent wants to focus on keeping NPCs. For the most part you end up seeing teams run around in circles capping the health shrine back and forth before VoD. It does play quite a bit differently from most maps, which is nice, but the slow pace of play there doesn't give it high marks.

I could do without seeing Solitude in the next rotation; it's not a bad map at all but very similar to Imperial Isle, but in the same vein as Meditation to Wurms, much less lethal with a lot of running back and forth accomplishing nothing.

Druids I'd like to not have on the next rotation; I love the map to death before VoD, but the way the map plays at VoD is just awful.

Greedy Gus · Jan 30, 2008, 08:15 AM // 08:15

The issue with wurms is that the shrine capping mechanic is much more problematic than a flagstand or obelisk cap in GvG. The reason is that too high of a priority/reward is given to capping it first with overwhelming numbers, and then keeping it only requires mirroring manpower toward it (or forcing a team to suffer a hefty stand powerplay to get it capped).

Ensign · Jan 30, 2008, 08:43 AM // 08:43

I haven't had any real problems with the capping mechanic TBH. Yeah it's pretty dumb when both teams are bunching up on it with 6-7 guys, but once you start messing with flaggers and pull everyone to the flag stand, the fights at the shrine turn into small skirmishes that tend to be decisive, there aren't a lot of staring contests. The dumbest part of shrine capping is how the thief counts as a person for capping, with all the joys of escorting a thief while running around coming with it.

But honestly I just don't like how it's a dumb health buff that slogs up the game by making one team really difficult to kill. If the shrine gave, say the Alliance Battle Battle Cry buff instead, I might rank Wurms up with Weeping Stone and Frozen as my favorite maps.

W I C K E D · Jan 30, 2008, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Druids I'd like to not have on the next rotation; I love the map to death before VoD, but the way the map plays at VoD is just awful.

/agree

the losing team allways seem to have the adventage due to the fact they are closer to the vine.
plz make the bridge bigger or the time to run around less.

Kaon · Jan 30, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by W I C K E D

/agree

the losing team allways seem to have the adventage due to the fact they are closer to the vine.
plz make the bridge bigger or the time to run around less.

Not true if you position yourself well. Which a lot of teams don't. I find this an advantage as it penalties bad positional teams.

The "problem" with druids is that you can ALWAYS force a fight outside the npcs in vod. Then again, this is possible on many maps, like frozen.

Nomad's vod is definately worse, where npcs dont count untill about 22 minutes when the guildlord charges in. Not to mention the bodyblock gank there is much more powerful. Next to that npc agro behaviour in vod there is really strange.

I quite like this map rotation, it's got not a single "bad" map like burning, weepingstone, or corrupted. Next to that there's not really any other map i'd like to see there except perhaps a catapult map instead of nomads.

W I C K E D · Jan 30, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Not true if you position yourself well. Which a lot of teams don't. I find this an advantage as it penalties bad positional teams.

thats a fact but what also a fact is that 9/10 of the ganking teams just block with 2 and send snare to front to cripple the monks long enough for the lord to die. this has nothing to do with positioning.
only if u where closer to the base u can prevent this from happening. but then the opposid team will just clear ur npc.
also standing near the vine isnt a good option since u will face al the remaining npc the opponent has.