Curse

Ec]-[oMaN · Feb 09, 2008, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

An unfortunate truth. http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...ibleguilds.php

Alright instead of prmoting e peen so we call it. Andrew, can you honestly say the next VOD update will drastically improve problems which are currently concerning the mass of players; which specific things are being looking at?

We'd all love to know, because currently it's a crap fest of BYOB, (etc, etc, name other bs broken crap here). Booze calls for dictionary check, think you get the messge though

Almighty Zi · Feb 09, 2008, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

...there are so many other Mesmer Elites out there that should really be seeing play.

Less than a third of mesmer elites could see competitive play in a standard balanced build. Out of the remaining two thirds, most promote degenerate solo bars, linear builds based around that elite or are just plain useless. Here are some examples off the top of my head:

Enchanter's Conundrum (one man spike care of augrey of death and shatter delusion etc.)

Visions of Regret (has absolutely no effect on 8 of the 10 GW classes)

Extend Conditions (not many conditions are worth extending and you can normally reapply them easier than extending them (and thus save yourself the elite skill slot). Alternatively, you may want to Spear Swipe (with your mesmer with 0 leadership) or Blinding Flash someone in RA and then spam this to build up the daze or blind to 30 seconds duration and then keep it on INDEFINATELY).

Tease (Hexes are useful on folk with no hex removal or where you can cover the ones you want to stick. If you have no hex removal then you can always wand the caster to remove this ELITE HEX. This skill is an absolute joke.)

These are just a few that come to mind.

Ec]-[oMaN · Feb 09, 2008, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

/sigh

Andrew may not be top material in any sense, but you don't have to be a raging twat.

Ontopic
Bump up LoD and Pleak please

There's much more concerning issues atm... P leaks nor party heals will save the day when you can byob and gain over 25%dmg increase with basic RA bars, or more...(after the match has already been won caugh, caugh) instead of dp and spikes having an advantage which they worked for, for over 18+ minutes like the old days, now all you need to do is bring your RA skills and kill random lone players while the team rapes base, gets morale, and so on. Sorry but GvG is once again in a shitty state, this time it isn't directly related to bad skill balanced, rather poor VOD or pre vod mechanics and or incentives...

I rather not add too much Ensign has already summed up every meta change/balance change/blablabla for years, more often than not he is spot on. Congrats to someone who has the patience to do that time after time, and then, let down, after let down.

Yichi · Feb 09, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopChop

Nerf splinter/ancestors already and reduce archers to pre npc buff days, GvGshould be decided by players and the skills they bring not some NPCs, if i wanted my game to be decided by some random NPC AI I would play WoW.

thus at the rate they are going, they are basically going to kill GvG without even knowing it, because they are thinking they are actually trying to save it.

Andrew Patrick · Feb 09, 2008, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Personal attacks aside, Izzy and I have been talking to a number of top 10 players for well over an hour on vent. We also both have spent far too many hours in Obs mode since these changes went into the game. I want to once again stress that these changes are still under evaluation and are likely to be adjusted over the course of the next week or so. We are aware there are concerns with the current functionality and the designers will be assessing any necessary changes.

Snow Bunny · Feb 09, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

There's much more concerning issues atm... P leaks nor party heals will save the day when you can byob and gain over 25%dmg increase with basic RA bars, or more...(after the match has already been won caugh, caugh) instead of dp and spikes having an advantage which they worked for, for over 18+ minutes like the old days, now all you need to do is bring your RA skills and kill random lone players while the team rapes base, gets morale, and so on. Sorry but GvG is once again in a shitty state, this time it isn't directly related to bad skill balanced, rather poor VOD or pre vod mechanics and or incentives...

I rather not add too much Ensign has already summed up every meta change/balance change/blablabla for years, more often than not he is spot on. Congrats to someone who has the patience to do that time after time, and then, let down, after let down.

Oh I understand that.

I just really really liked the old LoD/Infuse build.

DIH49 · Feb 09, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Personal attacks aside, Izzy and I have been talking to a number of top 10 players for well over an hour on vent.

Please list for me the top ten players that approved of this latest series of VoD changes or the PLeak change.

moriz · Feb 09, 2008, 02:30 AM // 02:30

so what you're saying andrew, is that the design team wants the players to do the testing for you, instead of doing testing themselves like they are paid to do? 'cause you know, there's no chance in hell that the VoD changes made it out to the public, had there been proper testing done.

of course, anet DID kick out their squad of alpha testers before NF release, so i can't say that i'm surprised that the design team can't do proper testing beforehand.

Ledah · Feb 09, 2008, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

I'm sure you had alot of fun playing against sin split for 18 minutes before vod last monthly.

Regardless of skill levels, it is a fact ZoS is sitting on r600 zone, so it's way less probable you'll run into the guilds that play sin split better. And I can tell you by personal experience that running around 18 min is certainly not more fun than hitting blocks 90% of the time. At least the blocks can be taken down with- oh wait, power leak got destroyed.... At least remove the "for 1/4 sec you move 100000000000% faster" aka shadow steps skills.

Ec]-[oMaN · Feb 09, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

so what you're saying andrew, is that the design team wants the players to do the testing for you, instead of doing testing themselves like they are paid to do? 'cause you know, there's no chance in hell that the VoD changes made it out to the public, had there been proper testing done.

of course, anet DID kick out their squad of alpha testers before NF release, so i can't say that i'm surprised that the design team can't do proper testing beforehand.

They lack the man power, I'd personally sign up for it though, pretty sure another 50+ would also, furthermore if there actually was testing involved pretty sure the VIO bug upon death would have been found withing 1-2 gvg's, yet we are left with crap updates and too boot my pet polar bear could have done the testing...

Riotgear · Feb 09, 2008, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Personal attacks are not acceptable, please do not waste my time or yours by posting them.

If you want to question Andrew's experience or credentials, go right ahead. Outright flaming is not tolerated.

Ensign · Feb 09, 2008, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Like I said, the designers are trying to find the right balance between protecting your base/attacking your enemies base and holding the flag stand.

You may be surprised to find out that you had that back in 2005. When the metagame turned to crap, do you think it was because the fundamental rules that carried the game through its golden age as the foundation of competitive play went sour, or was it because a bunch of ill-advised, untested balance changes accumulated on live, to the chagrin of those of us who continue to play Guild Wars?

ChopChop · Feb 09, 2008, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

Please list for me the top ten players that approved of this latest series of VoD changes or the PLeak change.

No one approved it, what he is pointing out is that after this patch, he have been talking to people and getting some feedback that is not easily provided in a forum post

Linkie · Feb 09, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Like I said, the designers are trying to find the right balance between protecting your base/attacking your enemies base and holding the flag stand.

Bringing back 30/45 minute VoD would atleast allow people more time to execute different strategies before VoD hit. But I guess this would mean the AT design would have to be changed aswell. Really though, the shortened VoD has ruined the game balance more than any of the skill changes. Currently, VoD is not a mechanic that ends drawn-out matches like it was originally designed to do. Rather, it is the most decisive fase of a match, and the whole match is just used to get as good as position as possible before VoD hits.

When I read the ViO update all I could think was "I'm so glad I don't play this game anymore" and "What was I thinking when i considered trying to start playing again?". For some reason my timing of army service was impeccable, it started around the same time this game started going very very fast downhill.

Yue · Feb 09, 2008, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopChop

No one approved it, what he is pointing out is that after this patch, he have been talking to people and getting some feedback that is not easily provided in a forum post

O so andrew patrick is actually going to talk to players on vent/in game PM's?

TheLordOfBlah · Feb 09, 2008, 06:20 AM // 06:20

NPCs were kiting from me today, what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO?

Double Pact · Feb 09, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

I can imagine all the chats between Izzy and the top ten guys were pretty similar to this one (@gwp channel in gamesurge):

Quote:

<@Polly> these notes reads dR lobby work like nothing else
---
(@Polly) but RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO a stupid vod system
-------
(@Polly) torsen made it right in his post on guru, players should be the focal point of vod
(@Polly) not npcs
(@Polly) its not a pve game
---
(@Polly) wait
(+Akaraxle) this could be some funny shit
(@Polly) they buffed glyph`
(@Polly) god
-------
(Rust|) i can't believe clumsiness is AoE
----
(@Polly) the vod changes alone are like right from the heart of ensign
(+Ensign) yeah that's why I told Izzy I hated the idea
(@Polly) with love and care for out npc farming future
(+Ensign) old VoD >>> new VoD
(@Polly) just get rid of 50% of the npcs already
(@Polly) make players do the damage
(+Ensign) old VoD is better than all this dumb Victory is Ours / NPC damage crap
(@Polly) if people have to play pve to win then dunno, maybe try temple of the ages instead of the guild hall next time they want to play
----
(+Ensign) I wish we could get a good simple VoD mechanic instead of continuing to add jank that doesn't help and just polarizes the game
----
(@Polly) [Last]Izzy|Work sorry izzy but if you were withing hearing range of me I would scream at the top of my lungs at you for a good 5 minutes about how this update removed soo much from the game and turned it into a skill spamming npc farming fest
(@Polly) pleak nerf is fine but for god sake hurt the recharge not the effect
(@Polly) good use of pleak is what makes the difference between good mesmers
(@Polly) not its just a spam skill with anything else
(@Polly) GoE but if jsut playing stupid
(@Polly) I got not words for it
(@Polly) skill spma is bad bad bad
([Last]Izzy|Work) the goal of the pleak change was to make it notviable, and se eif it brings some mroe 2c casts back in the game
(@Polly) thats why long recharge high effect is good
(@Polly) NOW its ping
([Last]Izzy|Work) it was the strongest skill in the game
(@Polly) sicne its low recharge low effect you must land it alot
(@Polly) so
(@Polly) at 20-25 ec it would be good use
(@Polly) at 15 sec low effect its ping
([Last]Izzy|Work) well I want to see the effects of it not being in the game
(@Polly) hurt the recharge
(@Polly) not the effect
----
(@Mitch`) how are you gonna see those effects
(@Mitch`) by not playing GW?
----
([Last]Izzy|Work) go play it, you guys are flipping out and going insane over pleak, go play some and see the effects, if it doesnt' do what we are lookign for
([Last]Izzy|Work) well revert it
(+Akaraxle|WoW) remember when I flipped out about the last update
(+Akaraxle|WoW) and I said it would be crap
(+Akaraxle|WoW) I played it
(+Akaraxle|WoW) and it was still crap
----
(@Polly) lets all diversion shame spam again
(@Polly) because thats fun
----
(@Polly) or rather guess what your saying is, who needs pleak when you can just gale blackout on spike right?
(@Polly) sorry bud but making the entire game comform to 1 play style is bad for everyone
([Last]Izzy|Work) clearly without Pleak there is only one way to play
([Last]Izzy|Work) my bad i"m sorry
(Love`SteveSeagal) spike/split
(Love`SteveSeagal) 2ways
(Love`SteveSeagal) sorry
(@Polly) I think we will see alot of the same skillbars now
----
(@Polly) somewhere I had a hope that someoen got around to reading torsens good post on guru
(@Polly) and realize that pvp is about the players not the npcs
----
([Last]Izzy|Work) give me a sec polly
([Last]Izzy|Work) lets talk via vent
(@Polly) somewhere in that thread about gvg turning into pve farming
([Last]Izzy|Work) this here just ins't working
([Last]Izzy|Work) let me finish my gvg game
([Last]Izzy|Work) and your getting me killed
(@Polly) haha its oki, I'm not mad, but I like comming in here and shouting every few months

Greedy Gus · Feb 09, 2008, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Oh good, posting IRC logs always worked well in the past...

Double Pact · Feb 09, 2008, 12:36 PM // 12:36

What exactly should/shouldn't work? This is a forum, where people exchange opinions. That anet doesn't really do anything about it, is clear anyway -.-

JR · Feb 09, 2008, 12:37 PM // 12:37

That really is a pretty meaningless log. You even cut out me flaming Polly for being bad. :<