Curse

bungusmaximus · Dec 07, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

whatever, running does fine until the other team runs faster, then it's usually time to go on ram speed, especially if my car is heavier then that of the enemy (nice comparison :P).

wuzzman · Dec 07, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

generally winning in AB has little to do with fighting. Cap shrine, move to the next shrine, kill bomb npcs, cap it, then run to the next shrine. Beyond the initially skirmish, if your not fighting an enemies team most likely your winning.

bungusmaximus · Dec 07, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

need to keep the shrine lead one way or another, if the enemy has a fervent capping team it doesn't hurt to kill them to slow things down. It usually just means turning around and capping the other way because you're usually pretty sure to meet them on the way. sometimes peope try to be smart and cap everything back behind you, making all work useless unless they are stopped.

Syntonic · Dec 08, 2007, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

generally winning in AB has little to do with fighting. Cap shrine, move to the next shrine, kill bomb npcs, cap it, then run to the next shrine. Beyond the initially skirmish, if your not fighting an enemies team most likely your winning.

I think if you put some thought into how AB works and the completely random nature of it, then not only is the initial skirmish important, but every skirmish you decide to engage in after that. There's way too many anecdotal evidence to suggest otherwise in my opinion. There's plenty of times where one group who simply chose to stand their ground instead of running away to cap another shrine won it for the entire side as one of the examples. The deeper you move into enemy territory, the more important and frequent those PVP skirmishes need to be - that's how it is designed and that's why it's an introduction to PVP or for more experienced players, chaotic fun. Well, maybe for some - a lot of PVP players have a negative view of AB the last time I checked. Then again, there seems to be negative views about every other format as well. Conclusion: Guild Wars is filled with jaded players.

Keekles · Dec 08, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

The small skirmishes are what I play AB for (when I'm with guildmates/alliancemates). Being able to kill the other group you encounter in a skirmish is important, as well as knowing when to leave a fight you cannot win, you can always circle around and cap behind them.

Skirmishes are fun, quick fights that persist throughout the entire match, which makes AB a bit of a "I'm bored, I think I'll go AB" thing for me.

Abomination · Dec 12, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Great post, now I'll get my ranks in no time hopefully.
^^

Bobby2 · Jan 05, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

I like AB because of its randomness - it really is a different form of PvP altogether. It isn't just 'swap Rez Sig for a run skill and be effective'; with 12 people rampaging around instead of 4 and the necessity of capping shrines one really has to reconsider the abilities and skills of a class. Competence in another player, whether ally or foe, is always a pleasant surprise for me, and the format of AB allows for a lot more laid-back talk.

A note on conditions: normally, as a Sin, I fear Blind the most. IMO, in AB, Cripple has proven itself far more relevant AND dangerous. Were Burning Arrow not so damn powerful, I'd say the Cripshot Ranger would be the uncontested King of AB.

Heh heh... my Sin comes a close third. JK!

moriz · Jan 05, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

i'd say the oldskool AoD shock assassin to be a close third. good damage, teleport+escape-switch, good disruption. you can even name your char "broodright brades" and go "i is broodright. i is corean haxor. i peepeed in ur coke" in all chat. what else could you want with a build?

that is, until you run out of energy. which this build is very prone to do.

Bobby2 · Jan 05, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

In AB? With all respect, all the AoD Shock Sin can do feasibly nowadays is ganking. A requirement for all my AB builds is the ability to solo cap at least some shrines with certainty, a feat the AoD Sin can't hope to accomplish with any shrine.

After my initial dabbling with Wiki builds, I've settled for MS-DB to carry me through AB as far as capping goes and now all my Sin builds run it. Energy management has rarely been an issue for me.

Solo killing in AB is, IMO, overrated. In my view, I don't have to be Teh Pwnzorz, I have to make myself useful. I play an Assassin, I've accepted my role as a support character long since. I strive to make life easier for my comrades, taking into account the fact that they are likely to have

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moriz

an IQ of 2

Being the type of person you are you might better understand my views if you checked out my current favourite AB build, which I just took the liberty of posting on this forum. You might agree, you might not - but in any case I'd like to hear why.

BTW, I met Lilith Moriz in combat once - it was a struggle between your team defending the Necro shrine of Grenz, and my team assaulting it. A long and gruelling skirmish it was, and after I decided to finally limp away to easier pickings I haven't seen her for the rest of the battle. I'll just assume we were both busy capping all the time. ^^

moriz · Jan 05, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

i remember that skirmish. i think it turned out to be me + monk on the necro shrine, vs your team of 4. that skirmish lasted for a good 5 minutes or so. eventually we were pushed off, but the skirmish had already been won: for that entire 5 minutes, that shrine was constantly churning out points. 43+6 points (we had 2 kills) for 5 minutes of work, vs no points gained by the assaulting team = victory.

and yeah, i saw your build. personally i think you should ditch rigor mortis for a self heal, but that's just me.

Bobby2 · Jan 06, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Rigor Mortis used to be Restful Breeze... great on the outside but I never got to grips with it. Yaay, a health refill during downtime. Its restriction on using other skills meant it always felt sort of 'in the way'. It angered me so much that I thought of taking off DM points for SA and take Shadow Refuge - then decided against it. On top of that, I've just come across too many fights that could not be won without an anti-block skill.

As it stands I can make it to an active Monk shrine when I need it a good number of times. And it fits with my idea of 'support'... often I have stared in amazement how several of my fellow melees tried to beat down a single elusive Ranger or Monk for literally minutes on end. Rigor Mortis, at least, allows them to move on quickly. Stagnation = loss, a lesson learned the hard way.

If I remember correctly I was still running Moebius Breeze back then. Didn't sit out the entire fight though, went for center Monk eventually... In defence, at least you weren't wreaking havoc anywhere else. I hate Cripshots.

wuzzman · Jan 06, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

every so often I feel like AB'ing....but I often decide against it shuttering because of 2 things that bug me. one I'm often a kurz and match making for kurz generally takes longer then it would for luxon. second to win in AB I have to avoid contact with human players while running around in circles killing AI faster then the other side. It's like persistent pve with PK thrown in. Not very impressive.

Solstace · Jan 08, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

While I agree that you shouldn't depend on your teammates, it's hard to win otherwise. There are some builds that are good at solo capping shrines, but they tend to be vulnerable to enemy cappers. And it takes much longer to cap a shrine when you are by yourself - one pip.

Conversely, you have your builds that are great at taking down enemy players - sins, air spikers, etc. but they struggle to cap shrines by themselves. They can take down individual targets quick, but they lack the aoe needed to wipe the shrine guards.

The best AB teams that I have been on have all had builds that complimented each other. It's good to have a fire nuker to wipe the shrine guards. Good to have a sin/air spiker to take out enemy players and individual NPCs fast. Good to have a ranger/mesmer/necro that can hex and shut down opposing monks/spellcastes/melee. And while you don't like them, a good monk can keep your group up and able to continuously cap shrines and deal with enemy cappers.

Bobby2 · Jan 09, 2008, 04:53 AM // 04:53

@ Solstace: DUH but that's not the point now is it? Solo cap capability is a must for me since PUGgers can't be relied upon to, well, be sane. Of course it's different with your regular TA group/Guildies, because there's a far greater incentive to stick together anyway. But PUGging is the context in which most AB discussion should be placed - when playing in an organized team, it's more like farming.

blurmedia · Jan 09, 2008, 01:07 PM // 13:07

How to win AB in 2 words: Don't pug. making a team with friends/guild mates is so much more enjoyable, becase well, you know your team wont suck.

Mr Pvper · Feb 08, 2008, 03:42 AM // 03:42

good guide for ab imo. I never rely on my crappy allies to win (as they always die 1st and fail at everything since i join pug groups). I just go off and do my own thing using a very overpowered solo build and rejoin an allies team if i find 1 during battle. Making a build that can solo cap and deal with teams solo efficiently is the way to winning for me=P.

For example
(this was before deadly paradox nerf, when deadly paradox was 5 energy 10 recharge and 50% skill recharge/activation)

[card]Mystic Sweep[/card] [card]Crippling Sweep[/card] [card]Extend Enchantments[/card] [card]Shadow Form[/card] [card]Heart of Fury[/card] [card]Faithful Intervention[/card] [card]Deadly Paradox[/card] [card]Shadow Walk[/card]

16 mythism, 15 scythe mastery, and some deadly arts / shadow arts
With that build, i used to use it as a mob staller (slowing down enemy caps by rushing right into the mob using shadow walk). With that, the mob (usually 4-12people) is determined to kill me while i pick off the weakest targets and escape when shadow form is going to end. Unfortunately, they could never catch me as id cripple anyone who can chase me down, and immediately warp half the map away when im vulernable. The mob, humilatiated by 1 guy pwning people in their own mob, chase after me. By purposely running off in the wrong direction and reversing warp methods, i could live forever. My dmg was insanely crazy as i'd have IAS and a mystic sweep for a double strike, and a snare (shadow walk +crippling sweep) to kill runners. That build was screwd with people's mind mentally, as they'd always attempt to run cause they cant do anything against me. Attacking Runners while crippled=free criticals. Solo capping shrines was easy and simple too, and with an overpowered build i can also defeat 4 man weak pug teams solo easily.
Kill death ratio was about 20-30:0-2 depending on how perfect ur warps are and how dumb ur enemies are. btw this nerfed build might make no sense to u guys.

Note: this build was nerfed cuz of deadly paradox so dont get any ideas now

Now i use a E/D build with mind blast as it is the most overpowered build i can think of (it cant fight mobs unfortunately=/)

Bobby2 · Feb 19, 2008, 10:15 PM // 22:15

[rant]

People should realize how important the wall defense NPCs are when battling in a base map. Too often are we relegated to running rings around the base because the Eles, Mes and Necros on top the wall are gddmn all-powerful.

[/rant]

Songbringer · Feb 19, 2008, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i took your advice and joined one of the top AB guilds (owns zos shivros currently). i hate to say it, but these guys SUCK. playing with them is generally more frustrating than with a pug, since these guys need me to micromanage them every single step of the way, or they'll run around like headless chickens.

if these guys are representative of the rest of the AB guild population, i'm not sure if i really want to join any of them.

/agree I have been in many top alliance guilds and there players aren't better then the average pug. They just grind out AB more often. I find most of(sorry any but I have been in your alliance so I know) the any alliance are ragers and just go cap cap cap cap /leave.

itsvictor · Feb 19, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i took your advice and joined one of the top AB guilds (owns zos shivros currently). i hate to say it, but these guys SUCK. playing with them is generally more frustrating than with a pug, since these guys need me to micromanage them every single step of the way, or they'll run around like headless chickens.

This statement wins all alliance battles. You deserve Savior for this >_> lol...

One of the rules should be: "Always try to play with people you know" PUG's fail unless you "somewhat know" the person a.k.a. seen them around the block a few times. I despise pugging with a passion (unless i wanna test a build) and have built up a nice big happy friend's list that has a nice big happy friend's list...Everyone wave your tigers around and charge the base defender!

Also advice to the few, get someone that knows how to tactics call: Usually capping with your 4 man team might not be enough as the other teams are feveriously slow with their own terribaed groups.Tactics caller should be able to see this, identify the enemy that is capping faster than you, and if you think you can take it, skirmish fight with them and stall them. It's great when you turn a game around cause you keep wtfpwning someone's team that is trying cap. There's a lot of different situations that can easily mess up your and your group so you need to point fingers at someone who knows what their doing and follow them. Also have a back-up because it's easy to get separated on such a big map, or if you do what I do, disappear off screen regularly to solo cap or engage in skirmishes to help struggling PUG's win, you need someone to coordinate your group as you go baibai.

Reputation building is also key, like said, if you name your character's with something familiar in each of them (In this case my name: Victor), people begin noticing and will invite you to your group's(and hopefully reinvite/friend's list). This takes time but it's how you get away from having to PUG.

MasterSasori · Feb 20, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsvictor

One of the rules should be: "Always try to play with people you know" PUG's fail unless you "somewhat know" the person a.k.a. seen them around the block a few times. I despise pugging with a passion (unless i wanna test a build) and have built up a nice big happy friend's list that has a nice big happy friend's list...

It's always a good habit to talk about a brief strategy for like 15 seconds when you PUG. Usually the PUGs just end up terrible, but its worth a shot. And yes, whenever you can play with people you know, it helps infinitely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsvictor

Tactics caller should be able to see this, identify the enemy that is capping faster than you, and if you think you can take it, skirmish fight with them and stall them.

I agree with this. Sometimes its much better to reverse directions to stall/kill a group and recap a shrine you've recently taken. Of course, it sucks when you run into a mob, so its good to leave yourself and outlet so you don't get cornered. The best way to avoid this is to ask teams on your side to call out if they see a mob and report mobs yourself. Some of the most successful teams in AB don't need stellar builds; just common sense and good judgment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsvictor

[If you] disappear off screen regularly to solo cap or engage in skirmishes to help struggling PUG's win, you need someone to coordinate your group as you go baibai.

Fat chance this will happen in a PUG. Best to ask the PUG to call out their direction and leave you with the job of catching up once the skirmish is over. Skirmishes often become mobs so getting back with your group is very important.