Curse

Kaon · Feb 19, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Windborne speed is one of the best designed skills in guild wars. I cannot praise this skill enough, buffing alternatives to be so much better was a sad day in guild wars.

It has GREAT toolbox capability, rewards even encourages tactical play, is still counterable (strips, interrupts) and required skill to use. The character that used it also wasn't invincible when running in the flag so could easily be pressured down, forcing people to switch the flag to warrior to run it in when under pressure (seriously noone does this anymore). I found the relation between windborn and the "old" nightfall speedbuffs most typical and symbolic for the degradation in skill and tactical ability nightfall caused. With the recent nerfs to these speedbuffs we've gone a step in the right direction. However because of the overpoweredness of powerleak (and it has to be overpowered because of overpowered defense) and magebane shot it will be easily taken care off as an elementalist. Making it 1/4 second cast would only bring back the problems we had with storm djinns. I would love it if they would make this skill playable again, but in order for that to happen they should nerf the alternatives, and that's a lot of work that won't happen.

Kyp Jade · Feb 19, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I would just like to see a duration buff. As an HA player I would like to see more flexible skills than make haste.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Feb 19, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allanon754

Now I'm not saying that dR, Rawr, NFR, etc. won't be able to destroy them...

NRF actually got rolled by them (then again NRF is bad), there's bspike guilds in top 100 too, doesn't mean it's overpowered.

Div · Feb 20, 2008, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allanon754

I hate to rant against that statement because I love MH and your guild in general, but just look at the ladder. Goth is at 196 and moving up... no they are not skillful at all. Even played them at balanced once and wiped them. Now I'm not saying that dR, Rawr, NFR, etc. won't be able to destroy them... but if you have a guild that high that is able to spike out a select target where damage mitigation does nothing why shouldn't it be nerfed?

It's funny too... if you watch they say that they will switch over to balanced when they get a higher rank... which of course they won't...

If anything, running sinsplit and bspike would get you the highest rank for your player skill. Until those get nerfed, I don't actually mind gothspike. At the very least, it's more easily specced than against sinsplit (which generally requires you running another sinsplit or really gimped builds vs balanced).

Vaga · Feb 20, 2008, 02:41 AM // 02:41

gothspike isn't that hard to beat, altho no1 good has run it yet.

erk · Feb 20, 2008, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

NRF actually got rolled by them (then again NRF is bad), there's bspike guilds in top 100 too, doesn't mean it's overpowered.

Curious why do you say NRF are bad? Their ladder performance and win/loss ratio looks impressive on the surface. 82%wins.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Feb 20, 2008, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Curious why do you say NRF are bad? Their ladder performance and win/loss ratio looks impressive on the surface. 82%wins.

It looks impressive cause all they face are r200 and worse guilds.

Allanon754 · Feb 20, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Sin spike/bspike, paraway, heroway... my guild has countered them all... I'm not saying we're great... nor that we suck... but going against a spike that is almost impossible to stop... I find it extremely frustrating that A.net does not change anything.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Feb 20, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allanon754

Sin spike/bspike, paraway, heroway... my guild has countered them all... I'm not saying we're great... nor that we suck... but going against a spike that is almost impossible to stop... I find it extremely frustrating that A.net does not change anything.

It's not impossible to stop, especially not when performed by terrible players, like Goth's.

Zabe · Feb 20, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

I must admit that I were before in the camp of people who said BSpike isn't overpowered, and they will just explode in 8v8. But with the most current spike being Angrodon's Gaze + Vampiric Gaze (AG fed by the signet thingie you know) I'm slowly going to the camp of it being overpowered. Firstly, AG is 3 energy spike skill. Second, it doesn't have the huge gap between like you did in the old times, and last, it does a hell of an amount of damage. You can see targets being infused and they still drop.

yesitsrob · Feb 20, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

I've only actually faced Goth's spike once, it's terrible, so are they - they also have Isle of Wurms as their home map and are atrocious at holding the shrine.

If you lose to them you honestly must be worse than they are

IMMORTAlMITCH · Feb 20, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

They were on obs on Hunter's I believe, or one of the catapult maps anyway.

Captain Robo · Feb 20, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

:/

A lot of the people in Goth are my friends, but I haven't played with them in about two months; but just because they play spike doesn't make them bad players. I know Vega thinks it's funny to recruit from RA just for random members sometimes.

At any rate, enough about Goth.

erk · Feb 20, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

I would have thought in the current split meta the Goth spike would be more useful as a 4 +4 with 6 monks and 2 warriors, forget the two Eles and run a full split. As all the Monks have their Monk elites they should be able to split/survive well. If forced to 8 v 8 they could easily spike two targets at once. One of them being the Infuse monk on the other team

Not sure how they would remove enchants though without the E/N. Perhaps Lift or Expunge Enchantments.

Akaraxle · Feb 21, 2008, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

.25c discourages the interrupt meta somewhat. It's what the skill would need to be viable on a runner at least (longer durations tend to be bad for reasons I've already talked about).

I was reasoning from a broader spectrum: quarter second casts are indeed (almost) uninterruptible, but I do not think putting stuff on 1/4c is the right approach for dealing with the interrupt meta. With more and more stuff being cut down on cast time, rather than increasing the recharge of the actual interrupts to make them more of "money skills", I'm afraid we'll end up with too much of a twitchy/spammy game.

Theoretically speaking such short recharge, unstrippable (you can't realistically and consistently "strip" something like a Windborne used at the stand) powerful spells should be somewhat vulnerable to shutdown other than Diversion. I'm just afraid it could become a bit over the top and give even more power to physicals than they already have.