Curse

JR · Feb 18, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Please do something about sinsplit.

I am bored of playing/playing against sin split in every AT, or losing to it on ladder because we want to run something less boring. It really has become a bit of a problem.

In the last weekend AT we played 4 guilds in a row running it, with a ladder match inbetween where the opposing guild was also running it. When does it get to the point that you recognize it's a problem? It's a disgustingly degenerate build that is ridiculously strong and fairly simple to play. It seriously needs to go.

Less NPCs, no ViO (unless you change it to be based on morale rather than NPCs). Make teleports require line of sight, shit on combo damage.

When the game isn't too bad I find it easy to excuse slow balance changes, as you wish to take your time to observe how the meta changes. However there comes to a point when I wonder just why the hell you aren't fixing a blatant problem. I honestly thought you had gotten past the point of letting broken gimmicks linger in GvG for this long.

To reiterate what I said in another thread: Sins are bad for the game. They make it less fun.

P.S. Try and do something about defense web while you are at it, because once sinsplit goes that is what everyone will revert back to. Get rid of Aegis/get rid of cancel casting with GoLE, tone down WvMelee, and make Paragons less defensive.

Shendaar · Feb 18, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

I agree.

It doesn't matter how balanced you try to make sinplit(especially sineptitude), it will always be RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing boring to play against and require very little skill to play.

I would personaly work on GolE and WAM before Aegis though.

JR · Feb 18, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

I would personaly work on GolE and WAM before Aegis though.

Definately GoLE, the cancel casting mechanic is just stupid. Ward Melee could probably also use a hit, considering now it is nothing but one of the layers defenseweb uses.

Riotgear · Feb 18, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

This isn't the place to complain about balancing affecting PvE.

Not that hits to Siphon Speed, Rigor Mortis, or GoLE cancel-casting would affect that anyway.

RotteN · Feb 18, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

pretty much everything (map rotation, new VoD stuff, ...) favours split atm, and sinsplit is just the easiest/most effective to run.

and indeed, change GoLE to "you get the spell's energy cost back when you finish casting the spell, with a maximum of 10...15" so they don't just cancel out till they get a FC / you run out of interupts / ...

The Meth · Feb 18, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Agreed on all points.

I haven't GvGed in a long time, but its still boring as hell to see the same build used in 9/10 games on observer mode.

Assassins, along with paragons and to a lesser extent all expansion professions were not very well designed in the first place to do anything other then promote gimmicky or degenerative playstyles. Too bad with GW2 on the horizon we can't expect a complete revamping of those professions.

And please, for the love of god stop the GoLE cancel casting.

Divinus Stella · Feb 18, 2008, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Just make all shadow steps cost 25 energy and cause exhaustion.

JR · Feb 18, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

And require line of sight to the target.

Kaon · Feb 18, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Sinsplit once was balanced but that got thrown overboard a while ago with VoD updates. And i'll say that's not even the problem, the problem as been said 10million times before, is that it's RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing boring and linear to play against.

That being said, indeed nerf aegis and all that crap too. I suppose we can blame mitch for not putting previous in his post. People have been complaining about these issues for weeks/months/years(!), yet never get adressed.

Doji · Feb 18, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Later vod would be awful just based on the time it takes to finish an AT already.

JR · Feb 18, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doji

Later vod would be awful just based on the time it takes to finish an AT already.

True enough.

Divinus Stella · Feb 18, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

I dont think moving VoD back 2 or even 4 minutes will stop people using sin split.

I would like to see them nerf bloodspike again, its not really hard to beat but you have to take infuse on your monk bars everytime you want to play ladder and its not really healthy to have 3-4 guilds farming with it every night.

You never see bloodspike in an AT because it just gets raped hard by counters but i dont think thats any reason to ignore it, perhaps reducing angorodons to the same damage level as vampiric gaze and doing what was done to opressive to shadow strike so it doesnt trigger on targets with more than 50% HP.

DutchSmurf · Feb 18, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

I don't think the problem is the combo damage or the shadowstep. In my opinion the main problem is Siphon Speed. Thanks to that skill the assassins manage to get into your base before your support catches up with them. With as result a dead archer and an uncatchable sin. Do that a couple of times during the match and you cleared the whole base. If you made it do 10%, or higher the recharge a lot, or both, the problem with sinsplits would be a lot less. I don't think there is a single skill that comes even close to the power of Siphon Speed at the moment. The combo damage or the shadowstep wouldn't be a problem if your monk/runner wasn't too late to do anything every time because he was snared with Siphon Speed.

Turbobusa · Feb 18, 2008, 06:05 PM // 18:05

As you said the problem isn't sinsplit, it's the shadowstep mechancs. Just work that and we'll see what happens.

JR · Feb 18, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

I don't think the problem is the combo damage or the shadowstep. In my opinion the main problem is Siphon Speed. Thanks to that skill the assassins manage to get into your base before your support catches up with them. With as result a dead archer and an uncatchable sin. Do that a couple of times during the match and you cleared the whole base. If you made it do 10%, or higher the recharge a lot, or both, the problem with sinsplits would be a lot less. I don't think there is a single skill that comes even close to the power of Siphon Speed at the moment. The combo damage or the shadowstep wouldn't be a problem if your monk/runner wasn't too late to do anything every time because he was snared with Siphon Speed.

Siphon is definately a contribution, but by no means do I think it is the root of the problem. That most definately lies with shadow steps.

Yue · Feb 18, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Just make shadowstepping have a penalty. Like, every time you use a shadowstep you take 10% dp.

DutchSmurf · Feb 18, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Siphon is definately a contribution, but by no means do I think it is the root of the problem. That most definately lies with shadow steps.

Since most assassins changed to a 30 second recharge shadowstep without a way out, I doubt that is really the problem. But making them all 1 second casttimes instead of 1/4 might be a nice change. Might sound like a small change, but as monk it actually gives you time to see it coming and precast something if needed. It isn't like the old times where you could try to catch an assassin all over the map, only to see it teleport back to the other side again. 9 out of 10 times when a shadowstep is used currently, just walking there would have had the same effect. Any monk that knows what he is doing knows where they are going for anyway.
However, it is Siphon Speed that allows you to get to places before the other team can. Both when entering the base and when leaving it again without much chance of getting caught.

Kaon · Feb 18, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yue

Just make shadowstepping have a penalty. Like, every time you use a shadowstep you kill a baby.

Fixed.

123

Shendaar · Feb 18, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Maybe make them not work when moving slower than normal(ie snared)? It would make sense too considering that Shadowstepping is essentially a super speed boost and not a teleport.

Just my random thought of the day so it could be a stupid idea.

JR · Feb 18, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Pretty sure shadow stepping requiring line of sight would solve all of the problems with it, whilst still leaving it viable in some form.