Curse

IMMORTAlMITCH · Feb 12, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Make +morale add damage at an equal scale, so +10% morale gives you +10% damage. In simpler terms:

+1% Damage per +1% Morale
+2% Damage per additional NPC
Both effects cap at 10% and are combined to become your ViO bonus (capped at 15%).

This gives you an equal bonus for splitting as it does for contolling the tower. The one complication is it would mean both teams could have the bonus, but I don't think that is a big problem. Both would be calculated as VoD hit, and would remain constant.

This is definately better than the situation as it is now, however I'd still much rather see less NPCs and VoD moved back to 25 or at least 20 minutes.

With 15%-25% damage increase and NO health reduction.

Zabe · Feb 12, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Just out of curiosity, JR, would DP effect the damage negatively? I mean that You have like -15% DP so you do respective amount of damage?

VoD could be moved back to 20 minutes, and lord could walk out at 25minutes. This wouldn't make AT's any worse than they already are.

And ofcourse you could with the same work fix the AT system.

JR · Feb 12, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

Just out of curiosity, JR, would DP effect the damage negatively? I mean that You have like -15% DP so you do respective amount of damage?

"Make +morale add damage at an equal scale, so +10% morale gives you +10% damage."

Having DP negatively effect it as well would just compeltely cripple teams with DP that are already underdogs, there really isn't a need for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

This is definately better than the situation as it is now, however I'd still much rather see less NPCs and VoD moved back to 25 or at least 20 minutes.

With 15%-25% damage increase and NO health reduction.

Agree on both counts, though leaning more towards 20 minutes rather than 25.

Byron · Feb 14, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Agreed with Mitch and JR - the system should not be winner-take-all. If anet wants to make VoD complex, they should at least make it properly complex.

If this continues to be the case, I'll just suicide the NPCs at 17 minutes to get ViO, and then win the game.

audioaxes · Feb 14, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

i just wish we could go back when flagstand battles were not stalemates

C2K · Feb 14, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

i just wish we could go back when flagstand battles were not stalemates

Flagstands being stalemates is a sign of balance. If someone breaks the stalemate its because either 1) Team A > Team B(or vice versa) or 2) An X factor gave one team an advantage.

Right now, ViO is the X factor at the flagstand.

Yue · Feb 14, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

You're right. rawr vs sink was the epitome of game balance.

Captain Robo · Feb 14, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Flagstands being stalemates is a sign of balance. If someone breaks the stalemate its because either 1) Team A > Team B(or vice versa) or 2) An X factor gave one team an advantage.

Right now, ViO is the X factor at the flagstand.

The issue at hand is whether that X factor is worth babysitting NPCs and an 18 minute flag stand circle jerk.

If that's all it comes down to, then goddamn, make VoD at 5 minutes and turn GvG into RA while we're at it.

Divinus Stella · Feb 14, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Its stupid how protecting NPC's is more important than everything else in GvG, healing a stupid NPC with a few crappy skills now takes priority over the team.

You can rape a team hard and secure moral boosts before VoD but aslong as they have 1 more archer they can still win.

newbie_of_doom · Feb 18, 2008, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Lol that build is fail. SpNv has really good players but just, sometimes.... they play such lame stuff... xD

red orc · Feb 18, 2008, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

Its stupid how protecting NPC's is more important than everything else in GvG, healing a stupid NPC with a few crappy skills now takes priority over the team.

You can rape a team hard and secure moral boosts before VoD but aslong as they have 1 more archer they can still win.

Try to rape their team and rape their NPCS, or secure boost and rape their NPCS.
The more proactive you will play, you have more options to get the upper hand at VOD. Reducing the number of ppl at the flag stand, means you take a risk. This risk has to reward you in someway, the reward is VIO. This is also an incentive for the other team to respond to your split and not simply reduce your flagstand group to dust. which again results in a more dynamic game.
Otherwise you'll end pounding 8*8 with tons of layers of defense, to avoid mistakes and we all know how this game looks like.....

Fire Childe · Feb 25, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbie_of_doom

Lol that build is fail. SpNv has really good players but just, sometimes.... they play such lame stuff... xD

You missed the point. The point was that SpNv knew pretty much what the other team was going to play. They knew the map and they knew that if they didn't have npc advantage at VoD they would very likely lose with what they had. SpNv's build was a conceptual failure for some of the reasons mentioned in this thread but that wasn't really the important point to comment on.

The one million dollar question is what is so wrong about the mechanics of the game that a top 20 team like SpNv would even consider sacrificing so much in order to throw together what is essentially a build designed around exploiting npc AI and killing npcs in order to secure ViO.

The suggestion here is that npc advantage is so critical at VoD that even the best teams will shoot themselves in the foot in order to guarantee it because the overall outcome would be more favourable for them in spite of doing so.

VoD was meant to be a stalemate breaker and it was meant to tilt the advantage in favour of one team suddenly in order to end a game that could go on forever. But now there has been an overshoot and many playstyles have become redundant in gvg because securing npc advantage is the one thing you absolutely have to have if you cant break a team in 18 minutes. From the looks of things teams are willing to sacrifice all of their melee frontliners, sacrifice the flagstand and several of their own players in a last minute npc gankfest just so they can get that critical dmg boost.

You can sort of see it in the ATs. Pretty much everyone plays some sort of balanced split or sinsplit. To do anything else would be to set yourself up for one hell of a rough ride. The worry is that if left unchecked, npc smoking gvg builds will become commonplace but I dont know. I have yet to see one that is viable.

Yue · Feb 25, 2008, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Them japs did really well this monthly didn't they?

Div · Feb 25, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yue

Them japs did really well this monthly didn't they?

Euros finally figured out they can run the build as well as teams like spnv/me/hand because it's not really hard to run, and that they can win doing it because they will always have lag on their side in an 8euro vs 8american or 8asian situation. Japanese guilds lose because they error7 or get massive lag on Euro or American servers.

Riotgear · Feb 25, 2008, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Childe

The worry is that if left unchecked, npc smoking gvg builds will become commonplace but I dont know. I have yet to see one that is viable.

Dual Assassins + Dual Mind Blast IS an NPC-smoking build. :P

Div · Feb 25, 2008, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Dual Assassins + Dual Mind Blast IS an NPC-smoking build. :P

That build is basically the "organized BYOB" at its best, with strong power in short skirmish battles as well as defensive support. And the main point of BYOB is to kill NPCs and win VoD.

Akaraxle · Feb 25, 2008, 09:24 AM // 09:24

In one of the 8euro vs 8euro matches I've played this AT, our opponents had one of their warriors and one of their monks dropping and reconnecting in different moments, and another guy lagging like shit for the whole match. I know them and most of them have good connections, living in big cities; one of the droppers is even on fiber optics.

ololol euro servers work great yeye~~

weis · Feb 25, 2008, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Everyone has lag not just americans, so talking about euros having lag on their side is absurd.. We played two american guilds this monthly with all having lag + like half second delay on skilluse. Still so far I've only seen Americans bitch massively about lag.

JR · Feb 25, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by weis

We played two american guilds this monthly with all having lag + like half second delay on skilluse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by weis

Still so far I've only seen Americans bitch massively about lag.

Inconsistent.

weis · Feb 25, 2008, 10:27 AM // 10:27

So far. As in before my post. =D

But let's not start a "we lag more than you" war it really doesn't matter. I just wanted to bring it up that it's not only americans and japs that lagged.