Curse

Akaraxle · Feb 28, 2008, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

4.Say its overpowered sure, I never cared for sins anyway, and 1 less shadow step + lag + death spike will please my RA runner build(griefing purposes only) a whole lot.

Say, what's your IGN? I need to, y'know, like ask you for advice in-game or something.

Buns United · Feb 28, 2008, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

Fox Fangs, remove faster activation.

So basically, what you suggest is: you make it an offhand attack like wild strike, with about the same (if not the same) damage, and not removing a stance?

Imo, it's not like any assassin skill that gets used with sinsplit is omgwtfimba! Signet of toxic shock: conditional spike damage, with a 15 second recharge.
Impale: it's also a 1 second cast time, while maybe a bit high on damage, it requires to be cast after a dual attack. meaning when you end your chain, you cast for another second for the deep wound to apply, then you have to hit them again for the deep wound to actually apply.
Siphon Speed nerf suggestions are actually the only assassin suggetions I fully agree on so far.

As stated before, ViO is what made an npc advantage crucial. And sinsplit hit the meta because of it.

Keithark · Feb 28, 2008, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buns United

So basically, what you suggest is: you make it an offhand attack like wild strike, with about the same (if not the same) damage, and not removing a stance?

Imo, it's not like any assassin skill that gets used with sinsplit is omgwtfimba! Signet of toxic shock: conditional spike damage, with a 15 second recharge.
Impale: it's also a 1 second cast time, while maybe a bit high on damage, it requires to be cast after a dual attack. meaning when you end your chain, you cast for another second for the deep wound to apply, then you have to hit them again for the deep wound to actually apply.
Siphon Speed nerf suggestions are actually the only assassin suggetions I fully agree on so far.

As stated before, ViO is what made an npc advantage crucial. And sinsplit hit the meta because of it.

It is not exactly "imba" it is bad mechanics for the game...shadowstepping needs to go...all forms of it

Riotgear · Feb 28, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buns United

SImo, it's not like any assassin skill that gets used with sinsplit is omgwtfimba! Signet of toxic shock: conditional spike damage, with a 15 second recharge.
Impale: it's also a 1 second cast time, while maybe a bit high on damage, it requires to be cast after a dual attack. meaning when you end your chain, you cast for another second for the deep wound to apply, then you have to hit them again for the deep wound to actually apply.

Conditionality is only as much as a drawback as the conditions are difficult to satisfy. Shock/Iron Palm --> Falling Spider --> Vampiric Assault does not make that difficult to satisfy. It does let you run 15 Deadly Arts and get away with it though.

Quote:

As stated before, ViO is what made an npc advantage crucial. And sinsplit hit the meta because of it.

It originally hit it because other split options were becoming gimp and the way of dealing with NPCs had become "farm them at the stand with Splinter Weapon and A. Rage." Sineptitude, a.k.a. Sinsplit 1.0, could neutralize the stand team throughout the game, and at VOD, wait for their NPCs to roll them over. After the introduction of nuke-launching NPCs and ViO, the stand was marginalized even more and now it's all about the NPCs.

I actually support and have suggested the idea of NPCs providing team buffs, but not in the form of a flat 10% damage increase hinging on something as small as a single archer.

diff · Feb 28, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seef II

One thought:
Ancestor's Rage switching functionality and numbers with Clamor of Souls wouldn't change much, would it? It's something I've been mulling over, but I am not qualified to comment on what this would do to high-level GvG. It'd make your rit less splittable for sure, though. You'd have to choose between an imbalanced "nuke whatever's next to your warrior" skill and self-defense on the split.

I like that idea. The same thing should be also done with Onslaught and Attacker's Insight, since last one outclasses the first one which is an elite in almost every aspects (casttime, recharge, needed attribut points to be vailible).

Byron · Feb 28, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

ViO was a bad idea, but at least progressive in that it eliminated the 7v7 defenseball meta. Imo, if it's allowed to continue, builds will grow more exacerbated in their NPC farming techniques until we see full shadow step teams. It seems only some sense of tradition or honor is keeping teams from all running sinsplit. Just remove it.

Even without ViO, NPCs are too much a part of the game. They should be a strategic factor, not the whole bloody strategy. I'd suggest removing some NPCs or rolling back their special attack buffs.

Pious assault is rediculous. Any other deep wound attack is elite or has some serious drawback (weakness, a dual attack, unreliable, etc). The enchant removal clause, which would seem to be its balance, actually makes it more powerful in cooperation with dervish enchantments.

Shadow shroud could use a hit, even though much of its power is by virtue of the state of the metagame.

Glyph lesser has been on the table for quite a while. I'm starting to get used to it.

Sins make me angry in general, but that's always been the case.

wuzzman · Feb 28, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

shroud and silence shouldn't be in the game, and there is no point in the current rigor mortis, which was always bad, only buffed to compensate for the nerfing of the curse line in general, and only serves one purpose which is to be run by necro secondaries. Just nerf to oblivion and beyond rigor and shroud of silence.

Razz L Dazzle · Feb 28, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

this whole thread for balance suggestions has way too much crap too filter through. I like Mitch's approach last month which netted us some player driven changes though Izzy's actual balance and refusal to remove VIO has created continued balance problems in GvG.

I'd agree that Ranger interrupts could use a small nerf but not right now. When sins , dervishes(pious& grenth's aura), teleports, broken burst, Rodgorts spam, get adjusted i'd like to see the resulting meta game then evaluate correct modifications for rangers if its needed.

Someone post some good changes and a general direction and vision then lets discuss it. Nothing here is worth reading atm.

Andrew Patrick · Feb 28, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

There is a balance update (and additional changes to VoD) scheduled for next week. Thank you for your feedback so far, and please keep it coming.

Burton2000 · Feb 28, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Not really to do with skills but the new map rotation has been anounced. Warrior's Isle, Burning Isle, Uncharted Isle, Isle of Weeping Stone, Frozen Isle, and Imperial Isle.

moriz · Feb 28, 2008, 09:08 PM // 21:08

not really a skill balance issue, but ever since the last update, i've been having skills automatically cancel if i use them right after i move. it's killed quite a few troll unguents and apply poisons.

can you take a look at it please?

erk · Feb 28, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

not really a skill balance issue, but ever since the last update, i've been having skills automatically cancel if i use them right after i move. it's killed quite a few troll unguents and apply poisons.

can you take a look at it please?

Might be lag.

moriz · Feb 28, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

lag does not cause that before.

Winstar · Feb 28, 2008, 10:16 PM // 22:16

1 second heal sig, increase the recharge if necessary

The last buff made it easier to run while putting less into tactics...but I don't think that was the issue.

C2K · Feb 28, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

I don't see how Shroud of Silence is broken outside of a split. Both monks run hex removal. In a split situation, I can see a team effort neutralizing a monk with Shatter Enchantment followed by SoS and Rigor Mortis.

Signets and Skills still get around SoS and unless they run Shadow Walk or cancel one of the enchant based shadowsteps, a sin cannot shadowstep for 15 seconds after using SoS, so they do sacrifice alot of mobility to get off that one kill.

Killed u man · Feb 28, 2008, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2K

I don't see how Shroud of Silence is broken outside of a split. Both monks run hex removal. In a split situation, I can see a team effort neutralizing a monk with Shatter Enchantment followed by SoS and Rigor Mortis.

Signets and Skills still get around SoS and unless they run Shadow Walk or cancel one of the enchant based shadowsteps, a sin cannot shadowstep for 15 seconds after using SoS, so they do sacrifice alot of mobility to get off that one kill.

Well, in a 8v8 build, SoS is indeed not very effective, unless you will dedicate your intire build to it being effective. (3 SoS sins for the healers, 3 Mesmer for shutdown/shatters and Rigor and 2 monks) However, when was the last time U saw a sinsplit fight 8v8? Notice the "-split" part in the end...

SoS is one of those skills that shall never be balanced, either it's total sheit, or it's totally broken, and atm it belongs to the second category... A mesmer has to play atleast half a minute with a monk to "start" the shutdown, here is the skill that does ALL that in 3/4 seconds, with the downside it has to "touch", which I don't find that hard when holding daggers o.0

erk · Feb 29, 2008, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Perhaps they could make SoS to be like Amity whereby it ends if that foe takes damage?

Lorekeeper · Feb 29, 2008, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Perhaps they could make SoS to be like Amity whereby it ends if that foe takes damage?

Or you could send some additional defense back in your base so that when the sins decide to SoS the healer you got some ability to mitigate their damage while the shroud is on? If you have 1 person defending against a 3 man split you deserve to lose. Shroud is most effective at catching isolated casters... and isolated casters who get jumped on by shroud sins are the result of mistakes being made in positioning which is not something skill balance can be held responsible for.

But of course if they have 2 SoS youre kinda screwed lol, but im sure a shock from a warrior or some interrupts from a ranger can help to disrupt the sins attack chains. SoS is far from the problem i think... but i could be wrong. I just think theres far more significant things to discuss than shroud.

Moloch Vein · Feb 29, 2008, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Things to consider:

Wither: Move to Soul Reaping. Restore original functionality (original nerf was overkill nerf combined with Malaise nerf.)
Malaise: Move to Soul Reaping
Depravity: Move to Soul Reaping

Icy Veins: Move to Death Magic

Atrophy: Increase duration, possibly -1/all attributes added (who in the world uses this spell?)
Foul Feast: Remove from game or rework completely
Wail Of Doom: Reduce duration, reduce recharge

All life stealing: Make subject to protection, increase damage accordingly
All sacrificing DD spells: Increase damage to match a reasonable max HP of user, or lower sacrifice cost. Alternately: Add Masochist's Insignia: -25% sacrifice on user (stacking)

C2K · Feb 29, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Things to consider:

All sacrificing DD spells: Increase damage to match a reasonable max HP of user, or lower sacrifice cost. Alternately: Add Masochist's Insignia: -25% sacrifice on user (stacking)

Since sacrifice skills are now counting sacrificing as a cost, an insignia as such could unbalance thiose skills. If such a high percentage would be negated to sacrifice, it should not stack.