Curse

Razz L Dazzle · Mar 05, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Assuming we can't completely remove this from the game what can be done?

Suggestions to improve shadow stepping as a mechanic:

The following changes apply to all forms of Shadow steps

Upon completion of shadow step all your skills are disabled for 1 second

Shadow steps are easily interrupted

Before you shadow step you lose all enchantments

Types of Shadow steps:

Defensive Shadowsteps
Currently they allow you to easily escape a dangerous position. It also makes escapes when ganking or retreating especially easy. The desire is to change them to make them function as either pre-kiting technique or putting yourself as bait to lure an enemy warrior into bad positioning. Both of these alternatives require player skill. Defensive shadowsteps should not allow you to escape once you are already being attacked, at this point your opportunity to escape is past.

Suggested skill changes to Defensive shadowsteps- (models)

Return- 5 energy 3/4 cast 20 recharge

Death's Retreat: 5 energy 3/4 cast 20 recharge

Offensive Shadowsteps
Offensive s-steps are used to spike in a quick burst in order to avoid prots. These are degenerate because it is very easy to use and coordinate this type of spike while it is significantly more difficult to protect against. The inverse should be true for them to be balanced. Protting should be more viable. Tele-spikes should need alot more coordination of snares, disabled monks, enchant rips for a longer period of time. These spikes should not have access to fast casting finishers/ damage skills and deep wounds. Without 1/2 or 3/4 melee spike skills and a temporary blackout should allow monk to have better control of this type of spike.

Suggested changes of Offensive Shadow steps (models)

Death's Charge- 10 energy 3/4 cast 45 recharge

Aura of Displacement & Shadow Meld- 10 energy 3/4 cast 30 recharge

Shadow Prison-10 energy 3/4 cast 30 recharge

Dark Prison- 10 energy 3/4 cast 45 recharge

Beguiling Haze- 15 energy 3/4 cast 30 recharge

Power creep had improved the recharge of shadow steps its time to revert those changes since its had a negative impact.

Additionally: When Aura of Displacement OR Recall ends you suffers from a 3-second blackout.

Map Changes
Corrupted Isle- Remove the perimeter archers. If splits have to go through the footmen first this map would be less gimmicky.

Druids Isle- You need the seed to teleport into and out of base OR you can't shadow-step up that elevation.

Frozen Isle You can't shadow-step inside unless the gate is open.

These are the best ideas i have at the moment, hopefully others have some good suggestions for Izzy.

Pyro maniac · Mar 05, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23

What about a 1 sec cast and some kind of animation on the target. 1 second should be enough to quickly throw a spirit bond on your team mate.

(not that I'm disagreeing with your post)

Patrick Smit · Mar 05, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz L Dazzle

Assuming we can't completely remove this from the game what can be done?...

Why this can't be achieved?

They could even form Core PvP sessions, and the rest that want to use the "gimmicky stuff" can fight in PvP Gimmick style. I bet you core will be filled with people that enjoy the game once more

Zamochit · Mar 05, 2008, 09:39 PM // 21:39

I still strongly believe that shadowstepping should cause exhaustion, and should possibly require 'line of sight'.

Wyat Hawke · Mar 05, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

Why this can't be achieved?

They could even form Core PvP sessions, and the rest that want to use the "gimmicky stuff" can fight in PvP Gimmick style. I bet you core will be filled with people that enjoy the game once more

C'mon, try to be sensible here... When A-net spends a month balancing simple skills, you think they would have the will and management to do that?

It's not like it is very realistic either, they aren't going to throw out professions just because we whine. I'm not saying I wouldn't mind it, but it just ain't going to happen.

Get over it, and try to sort out the problem with realistic measures.

Aera · Mar 05, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zamochit

I still strongly believe that shadowstepping should cause exhaustion, and should possibly require 'line of sight'.

Line of sight would definitely make good viable option. Exhaustion probably as well, but it would be kind of hard on assassins to actually complete a combo.

But then again, all sins do is screw up GvG so I'd say go for it

erk · Mar 05, 2008, 09:52 PM // 21:52

I would have thought something like all "other attack skills are disabled for 2sec." when using a shadow step, that should be enough time to prot, if you can.

Wyat Hawke · Mar 05, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

1-2 cast time, and a big sign on the target while casting saying "PROT ME!"

Should do the trick...

Divinus Stella · Mar 05, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

I like the blackout on skills, combined with less NPC's and better placing of NPC's it should make defending sinsplit a more realistic task.

A 1 second blackout would hurt derv spike but id like to see it 3-4 seconds if not more.

Billiard · Mar 05, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Shadow stepping in general should have shorter range - both offensive and defensive. This would require more skill getting in for kills or getting away without being killed, while also eliminating a lot of the frustration of chasing around sins in matches.

All shadow steps to targets that don't already hexed targets (AoD, Deaths Charge) should also put a hex on targets. These plus Shadow Prison and Dark Prison should then have a minimum amount of time the hex must be on before you shadow step (maybe .5 seconds for Elites, 1 second for non-elites). Basically give the target and defense some warning and a chance to react, but still make it short enough so a spike can get through.

The main ideas with these is to require more skill to make these work, as well as to allow skilled responses to counter them. Also, neither of these are radical changes to the mechanics so hopefully can be implemented and fine tuned some as needed.

Vanquisher · Mar 05, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Disable shadow stepping for non-Assassins (ie. link to Critical Strikes, failure with 4 or less).
Stop Assassin combos from pretty much 1-shotting things. At least with the very ancient AoD/Shock or AoD/GPS bars you could take the combo and still live, as could Archers if they managed to get their Troll off. Not the case anymore.
Take away stupid snare power from them. They already give a great movement advantage no need to make it even more insane (Dark Prison, Shadow Prison).

Riotgear · Mar 05, 2008, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Best suggestion I could think of:

Replace everything that causes Shadow Step with a new mechanic: On completion, the target's marked with a visible effect for one second, when that ends, the shadow step executes. If the caster is moving slower than 100% speed or knocked down, the shadow step does not occur. For skills normally only usable within earshot range, i.e. Return, the shadow step fails if the target is farther than 1.1x earshot range.

There, now you can keep the Assassin "flavor" and still let the RA button-mashers do their thing while making it gimp shit against players that know what they're doing.

valence · Mar 05, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Make shadow stepping pve only skills. Change shadow stepping mechanic to:

'You shadow step to your target blabla your next attack deals 300+ damage'

everybody happy.

Wildi · Mar 05, 2008, 11:31 PM // 23:31

omfg, shadow stepping is strong because it teleports you instantly from one place to another, all you have to change is slow it down with after cast delay or slow down the animation so it takes 1 second longer until you arrive at your target

Dark Saga · Mar 06, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildi

shadow stepping is strong because it teleports you instantly from one place to another

This gave me an idea. Maybe hard to implement and maybe not a definate solution. But anyhow, what about having the sin become etheral or something (so it can't be blocked by players/stuff) and travel towards the target really quickly (with homing ability), something like the shot of a low arced bow. This would mean that the further away someone teleports toward you the more time you get to respond to it and it will be quite obivous who will be the target. It will reward smart teleports too since it will be harder to react to a close teleport or to a cluster of foes.

Finally I think this is quite in line with the fluff about shadowstepping, moving into another dimension where you move faster, at least that's how i imagine it. Not that it really matters but at least it offers an excuse for it.

Wasteland Squidget · Mar 06, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Shadowstepping is at its most problematic on multi-layered maps like Burning Isle and Frozen isle. If I teleport from the ice to the bridge archer on Frozen Isle, I've moved an incredibly long 'distance' without teleporting further than earshot range. For the most part, this is what makes shadowstepping such a good escape technique, and where the problems arise from it in general.

Preventing shadowstepping from moving through multiple layers would fix a lot of the problems with it, and it's a lot more intuitive than some weird delayed version that may or may not trigger. It might also be worth giving shadowstep skills an aftercast.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Mar 06, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

An aftercast would be nice, LoS would impare mobility.

Patrick Smit · Mar 06, 2008, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyat Hawke

C'mon, try to be sensible here... When A-net spends a month balancing simple skills, you think they would have the will and management to do that?

It's not like it is very realistic either, they aren't going to throw out professions just because we whine. I'm not saying I wouldn't mind it, but it just ain't going to happen.

Get over it, and try to sort out the problem with realistic measures.

I didn't say they had to throw out stuff, just make different classes of PvP, like in racing you have many different classes as well. Formula 1, F1000 etcetera. Players will choose very liberally which style fits (their) play and amusement best.

It will prevent certain combo's like Mo/A but then it likely results in more enjoyable play. it would just require an option to choose core/all profesions during pvp play before u initiate.

*lemming* · Mar 06, 2008, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Aftercast solves a lot of problems.

Monk Gsb · Mar 06, 2008, 10:11 AM // 10:11

how about just add "this spell causes doubble exaustion" seriously this would solve the monk abuse in hb.