Curse

Killed u man · Feb 28, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Well, I'm not planning on making a "Omg-Uber-Thread".

I simply had to think about this when I saw 2 bad guilds play it out on eachother on Capture Points. One was the infamous Bloodspike, whilst the other played the just as infamous Rspike.

Somethign I noticed:

Even tough both guilds didn't have alot of (good )rep., I did see quite some "nice" (If you can use that term in HA) nice split tactics on the Bloodspike. They were actually "activly splitting", not the retarded "Scatter out and stand on a shrine"-tactic, which (I admit) I use aswell...

I find it really sad to see the Rspike won the game 20-5, just because Rangers, Paragons, Vital Weapon enabled them to pretty much split off everyone alone. However, split off in such a way that NO MATTER what the bloodspike did, they would always be out-splitted...

Even tough the Bloodspike had 15 more kills than the Rspike did, the bloodspike had a "better split" (Not the "natural split" which Rspike has, because Rspike simply is a free win on Cap Points, unless you face Mister Mind Blast), and they simply had more kills, they lost...

I'm not "promoting" Bloodspike as a uber-balanced (Obv), however I do believe that the Bloodspike was the far better team...

So I think Anet should implement "kill" rewards in the 2 Capture Points map to HoH... Wether with Simple DP (Not preferably tough) or some form of "point reward" (NOT 1 Kill = 1 point, otherwise spike = win).

This way retarded running around, which is all U see atm, doesn't get as much as advantage as it has atm.

Songbringer · Feb 28, 2008, 09:43 PM // 21:43

maybe 5 kills=point?

Kyp Jade · Feb 28, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

1 kill = 1 point would not make spike win. Because shrine control still keeps you in the game.

I think adding in kills to give points is a good idea. Death is not common on this map when two good teams face each other. Death only happens when splits collapse on a small enemy split.

Plus, I would be very very pleased with the extra method to get points, because these matches last to damn long, give us a way to end things sooner.

Lykan · Feb 29, 2008, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Fix cap points to encourage spiking??

Are you insane??!

People wouldnt cap it would be Kill Count all over again.

Kyp Jade · Feb 29, 2008, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Spike teams cant kill fast enough to discourage you from capping. THey can stay together and try to spike a split of yours down, but that takes time, and your splits will be capping, and collapsing and scoring kills of thier own.

Often times when I face a rangerspike on this, they arent smart enough to cap points, they travel in two groups, spiking group, and monk + ghost group. Sure they get kills, but not enough to matter, and at the same time I control many shrines, and kill them also.

If your seeking to get kills on this map, by far the best way to do so is by collapsing two of your splits on thier one. You sacrifice capping time, but if you do this after autores timer, you have more pips of cap power than they do for a minute. Thats all kills gain you right now.

Turn those kills into a point and you have a more interesting game than cap cap cap snare snare snare.

Horace The Great · Feb 29, 2008, 08:47 AM // 08:47

I don't like cap point that much, but the map is fine as it is now. With more changes on it I would probably dislike it more.

(Now Bspike is mentioned: I think life stealing is too overpowered, you gain health and it can't be protted. This is too overpowered especially on altar holding).

blood seeker · Feb 29, 2008, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Bspike isn't overpowered at all, are you kidding? do you see it win halls? I don't.

Horace The Great · Feb 29, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by blood seeker

Bspike isn't overpowered at all, are you kidding? do you see it win halls? I don't.

I have seen it won ye, but not allot. Still a build can still be overpowered without winning halls much.
Clean life stealing spikes on a ghost is nice, and since they have 7-8 spikers it doesn't matter much if you interrupt one.

Killed u man · Feb 29, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by blood seeker

Bspike isn't overpowered at all, are you kidding? do you see it win halls? I don't.

Looked at your tag and laughed...

Anyways, there is no real point in making this a Poll I gues, seeing Anet doesn't check this, however, I could collect some votes, and PM Andrew about it?

blood seeker · Feb 29, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Looked at your tag and laughed...

Anyways, there is no real point in making this a Poll I gues, seeing Anet doesn't check this, however, I could collect some votes, and PM Andrew about it?

stay to echo shadowform pls kejkej

LifesRestorer · Feb 29, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

no dude, that was elektra...

blood seeker · Feb 29, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Not only elektra, he does it as well

Killed u man · Feb 29, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

What has the fact that I play Echo Shadowform for money got to do with anything?

Ok, now stop trolling my topic and only post if you have something decent to say

blood seeker · Feb 29, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Ok i'll PM, but on-topic: cap points needs changing...

Phe Belladona · Mar 01, 2008, 01:06 AM // 01:06

tbh the first cap point map just needs to have its original set up of being able to walk across between the middle 2 shrines. its a big circle atm so it kinda creates a cycle map (similar to mobbing in ABs) where you just bash through and cap ahead, not really allowing for splits. antichamber isnt as bad cause of the gates and the long way rounds.

Lame Goes Forums · Mar 06, 2008, 01:49 PM // 13:49

The best available advice on pre-HoH (and HoH) cap points has two parts:

1. Talk about what your split is ahead of time, and

2. Don't be bad.

Killed u man · Mar 06, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lame Goes Forums

The best available advice on pre-HoH (and HoH) cap points has two parts:

1. Talk about what your split is ahead of time, and

2. Don't be bad.

No matter WHAT your strategy is, in the end it comes down to "capping" shrines, aka "balling" up on shrines.

This promotes 2 things:

-> Gimmick Builds with high solo survivability: Shitway, Hexway, Legoway, ANY build with /Rt WoW, Thumpers, R/D's, Paragons, Zerg Warriors, ...

In cap points, it is 100% Build Wars. If you have 2 Fire Eles, this map is a walk in the park, however, if the enemy team has ranger spikers, it is a walk in the park for them. (Savage + Dshot = gg) Not to mention Migraine templates on a 1v1 Scenario Vs a caster = autowin... Anet wants to promote BALANCED PLAY, NOT BUILD WARS, remember?

-> Chaos: With 16 people on the map, it WILL come down to "everyone" thinking for their own. If te caller says: "5-6-7 cap top base, Me, 2, 3, 4 are going to cap their middle one, 8 pick ghostly and cap bottom one", then it is IMPOSSIBLE for the caller to keep track of the ENEMY 8 players when they are split up in 3 different groups. Let go of him realizing WHAT PROFFESIONS are where! So in the end, it doesn't promote strategic play, it promotes chaos... Because when they (enemy team) send 1 person to go cap one of your shrines, it seems unreal to ask from a caller to:
-Turn around his screen, press control (If he's even in range).
-Look what profession that is, and preferably gues what his skills most likely are going to be.
-Look at your split, and see what is the best character you can split off to go with that guy
-Make sure that character can reach him time
-Keep pressuring at the same time, because standing still = fail, no?
-Keep track, whilst doing all the previous ones, of ALL the 7 other players on the enemy team for splits...

Yeah, it's impossible, unless your name is Korean offc

I'm IN favor of strategy play, however, claiming that YOU can win capture points PURELY in strategy is plain bs. Because face it, in the end, it comes down to WHAT you pack in your build. (This is where legoway = the shits on capture points)

Kyp Jade · Mar 06, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Legoway isnt nearly as good as shitway is on this map, sorry borat but you are wrong.

Second, you are correct that one caller cannot control this map. Thats why the teams that win have two or three people calling strat for two or three independent splits.

Paragons are shit on this map, contrary to your belief.

Killed u man · Mar 06, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Legoway isnt nearly as good as shitway is on this map, sorry borat but you are wrong.

Second, you are correct that one caller cannot control this map. Thats why the teams that win have two or three people calling strat for two or three independent splits.

Paragons are shit on this map, contrary to your belief.

Hmm, Lego is fairly good on this map (Ok, i'll admit, it gets raped by R/D ways, but anything does against sway).

Ok, I get your point: You can have multiple callers. However, what if your caller for the top team (at top base) has to send 2 of the 3 people to your OWN middle shrine... He can do 2 things: Go himself +one of the 2 other guys OR send the 2 other guys and he stays at top. Now this group is split up aswell, so the group with 2 people need a caller aswell.
So in the end, it will, which is my point, come down to: How smart is everyone in your team.

I'm not referring to chaos as "no-one has any clue what they are doing", but rather in the larger meaning chaotic. You have 8 people on the map running around on the map doing their own thing. Sure, if this was Anet's intention, then fine, let Cap Points stay and I will slowly migrate to real PvP games. However, I have the feeling Anet did not implement these maps for the play they currently get. It was supposed to be about accurate splitting, "capping" shrines, collapsing on splits to kill them, etc...

And once again: solo survability. (And I am yet to see a somewhat decent paragon die in a 1v1 scrimmage with one of the HA templates o.0)

Kyp Jade · Mar 06, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

If your caller for a group of three has to split up that group of three, its pretty darn easy for him to take care of three people. No Matter where they are. He doesnt have to worry about the rest of your team. His only concern is keeping his 3 bodies alive, and collapsing with another split after the
auto-res timer. Sometimes this means take on a split, sometimes it means run like hell, sometimes it even means take on a split and die because you will res at the timer

. Anything he can do to overcap, and slow down caps of the enemy team.

And Paragons are shit for scrimmaging. No self heal, no emanage on split, no AR if your away from the anthem para. Pretty much all they are on this map is a pip to capping, and really really lousy dps. Generally thats why you see splits try to keep all the paragons in a team together, that way they can keep up AR and maybe be useful with some dps.

Also most of this map doesnt revolve around fighting at the top shrine, im appalled at how many people send thier entire team to the top to die in aoe and lose because they dont have any. There are four other shrines, if the enemy team puts all the importance in the world on the top shrine, let them do so. AoE does have an impact on this map, but not as much as you believe because you shouldnt have 6+ people on a shrine ever to die in aoe.

This isnt like HoH cap pt, you split to win here. In HoH you split and fail.