Curse

twicky_kid · Mar 23, 2008, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

I can't believe you're arguing again that LoD is free.

No. I'm just stating that at 5 seconds you could use it upon every recharge and still gain energy. At 5 seconds intervals LoD could suppress pressure nearly alone removing energy denial as a counter strategy.

Now with the longer recharge it won't matter if you have energy or not you will not be able to suppress pressure by ONLY using LoD on every recharge. You will need to use other healing spells costing you more energy.

pah01 · Mar 23, 2008, 06:10 AM // 06:10

dudw, please dont say those things.

If you could only bring one skill, then your point might have merit. Otherwise its the height of epic fail.

Joe

twicky_kid · Mar 23, 2008, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

dudw, please dont say those things.

If you could only bring one skill, then your point might have merit. Otherwise its the height of epic fail.

Joe

With a 5 second recharge it was nearly always available. Infuse and dismiss were the other 2 healing skills on the bar. Back then all you needed was LoD. It was brainless. Oh look its recharged cast it. If it even hit 2 people it was worth it. Not to mention you don't need to target before casting.

With a longer recharge you are now forced to bring something else as you cannot rely on LoD for all of your healing. You also must use other healing spells during that recharge gap increasing the bars energy usage. Its a good thing that promotes active play and prevents it from being degenerative like it used to be.

DutchSmurf · Mar 23, 2008, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

No. I'm just stating that at 5 seconds you could use it upon every recharge and still gain energy.

Didn't you learn nothing since the last time you tried to use this argument? It was stupid back then, it is even worse now because this is the second time.

Dismiss Condition secretly got moved to healing while I was laughing about your gain energy statement? And I guess all those protection spells on your bar don't get used and don't use any of your energy? Since all you need to do is cast LoD right? I don't know what your argument is/was. But in the future, if you want to make a point, don't hide that point behind stupid arguments.

The Blade From Hell · Mar 23, 2008, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Ah but ofcourse I heard getting an extra .3 energy a second was enough to fuel all your prots, condition removal and infuses all game. How could I have missed that... funny. LoD is a 1 second cast.. you want pressure pleak it, theoretically if lod was reverted ppl would get rid of blockway because it wouldnt be needed and the blockway characters would be reverted to offensive players, however people are gay and would probably run blockway motigons and b-surges WITH lod so tbh I have no comment. Its beyond repair if you ask me.. get rid of paragons maybe then ill have some comments.

Splitisoda · Mar 23, 2008, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by dies like fish

I'll keep saying it:

Light of Deliverance
10e 1c 5r
All party members are healed for 5..65..85. For each affected party member under 80% health, you gain 1 energy.

Bit too good, seeing as you'll either get 4-8 energy back in cases, which will make it seem either 6-2 energy.

Takida · Mar 23, 2008, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by dies like fish

I'll keep saying it:

Light of Deliverance
10e 1c 5r
All party members are healed for 5..65..85. For each affected party member under 80% health, you gain 1 energy. (maximum 2-4)

Fixed... ( 5 at 14 )

romO · Mar 23, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

SoD is playable. The problem with SoD is that it doesn't fit into team builds or backlines just as easily as people would like. That's unfortunate, sure, but it's by no means a bad skill. At the current time, it fits into a backline with healer's boon, which fits into team builds with layers of defense. This most often relegates the SoD bar to 8v8 defensive spike duty, but that's due to the nature of the skill, not necessarily the stats. Finding solutions to other aspects of team builds, such as party healing, needs to be done before SoD makes a comeback.

Blessed Light is playable. The only change that I really like is the one that keeps the recharge and heal the same, and lowers the energy cost to 5 while costing an additional 5 when a condition or hex is removed. Lowering the heal makes the skill lose its place within the backline, as it could no longer be relied upon as the big heal plus removal, and would need to be paired with something to overlap that effect rather than complement it. This would be something like WoH, in which case the only thing you're gaining (forget about the hex removal for a second) is the bar compression, which allows you to bring the dual Divine Healings. I don't know that this is necessarily a bad thing, as you are gaining a lot of things that backlines have been missing for a while, but it seems to have a lot of underutilized efficiency out of the skill. Going with dual Blessed Light like people did back in the day would become viable again, but is that what we really want? Keeping the big heal and reducing the energy cost to capitalize on conditionality just makes the skill more versatile all-around. I've been using the skill for quite some time now, and clearly the biggest problem is that it sucks to have to use it as a big heal without taking advantage of the rest of the efficiency of the skill (when the target does not have a condition or hex). The first change that I talked about would be an average use of energy when not meeting either condition (heal on par with GoH for 5e), a subpar use of energy when you meet only the first condition (heal on par with GoH plus condition removal for 10e), and a great use of energy when meeting both conditions (heal of GoH, condi removal, hex removal for 10e). I feel like that's close to how the skill should ideally operate, and GoLE would still probably be necessary on the bar to support the last two conditions, solving some of the problem of situational inefficiency. The biggest upside of the BL bar would once again be bar compression, as you get a good skill for the elite and the ability to run viable party heals at the stand without gimping the rest of your bar.

LoD is playable. Of course, it means you need two of them or a LoD+WoH backline. Any change to LoD that keeps an unconditional heal will make it obnoxiously good because it means that it will stack indefinitely. The change to casting range is long overdue, but the skill is only hanging on right now because it in itself is not that great and needs something additional to compensate. Any buff would need to include the range adjustment as well. Taking into account the (perceived) need for a buff, the need for a conditionality, and the need for a range adjustment, you have a tricky situation. I can honestly say that I don't know how to fix it, but any way that the skill is touched needs to be in the most delicate manner. There are more aspects to this skill than any other in the entire game (cast time, recharge, energy cost, range, conditionality, # of party members effected), which is what's making it so difficult to work with, as no one knows how to balance each of these aspects against one another to come out with a balanced and viable result.

I might be inclined to say more if 'monk balance' threads didn't fill my soul with rage. (my original post was 9 words)

pah01 · Mar 24, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

SoD is playable. The problem with SoD is that it doesn't fit into team builds or backlines just as easily as people would like. That's unfortunate, sure, but it's by no means a bad skill. At the current time, it fits into a backline with healer's boon, which fits into team builds with layers of defense. This most often relegates the SoD bar to 8v8 defensive spike duty, but that's due to the nature of the skill, not necessarily the stats. Finding solutions to other aspects of team builds, such as party healing, needs to be done before SoD makes a comeback.

Agree with this, but I honestly feel that at 10 secs recharge it is a little bit too long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

Blessed Light is playable. The only change that I really like is the one that keeps the recharge and heal the same, and lowers the energy cost to 5 while costing an additional 5 when a condition or hex is removed. Lowering the heal makes the skill lose its place within the backline, as it could no longer be relied upon as the big heal plus removal, and would need to be paired with something to overlap that effect rather than complement it. This would be something like WoH, in which case the only thing you're gaining (forget about the hex removal for a second) is the bar compression, which allows you to bring the dual Divine Healings. I don't know that this is necessarily a bad thing, as you are gaining a lot of things that backlines have been missing for a while, but it seems to have a lot of underutilized efficiency out of the skill. Going with dual Blessed Light like people did back in the day would become viable again, but is that what we really want? Keeping the big heal and reducing the energy cost to capitalize on conditionality just makes the skill more versatile all-around. I've been using the skill for quite some time now, and clearly the biggest problem is that it sucks to have to use it as a big heal without taking advantage of the rest of the efficiency of the skill (when the target does not have a condition or hex). The first change that I talked about would be an average use of energy when not meeting either condition (heal on par with GoH for 5e), a subpar use of energy when you meet only the first condition (heal on par with GoH plus condition removal for 10e), and a great use of energy when meeting both conditions (heal of GoH, condi removal, hex removal for 10e). I feel like that's close to how the skill should ideally operate, and GoLE would still probably be necessary on the bar to support the last two conditions, solving some of the problem of situational inefficiency. The biggest upside of the BL bar would once again be bar compression, as you get a good skill for the elite and the ability to run viable party heals at the stand without gimping the rest of your bar.

I really liked the days of dual blessed light prots. The solution that you mentioned is one that has been mentioned before and I don't know why izzy has not implemented it yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

LoD is playable. Of course, it means you need two of them or a LoD+WoH backline. Any change to LoD that keeps an unconditional heal will make it obnoxiously good because it means that it will stack indefinitely. The change to casting range is long overdue, but the skill is only hanging on right now because it in itself is not that great and needs something additional to compensate. Any buff would need to include the range adjustment as well. Taking into account the (perceived) need for a buff, the need for a conditionality, and the need for a range adjustment, you have a tricky situation. I can honestly say that I don't know how to fix it, but any way that the skill is touched needs to be in the most delicate manner. There are more aspects to this skill than any other in the entire game (cast time, recharge, energy cost, range, conditionality, # of party members effected), which is what's making it so difficult to work with, as no one knows how to balance each of these aspects against one another to come out with a balanced and viable result.

The skill will not get played if it was 10 energy or 2 second cast time. I dont like the idea of dual LOD's even tho I have seen guilds run it. AT a recharge of 5, I think it would be too strong, but at 10 seconds. It isn't quite as strong as you want. People have been running two instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

I might be inclined to say more if 'monk balance' threads didn't fill my soul with rage. (my original post was 9 words)

Why do they do this?

Joe