Curse

pah01 · Mar 19, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

Why is having mending touch remove 2 conditions a bad thing? I don't understand that because you can basically apply 2 conditions at the same time every 2 seconds with cripshot +poision) mend removes 2 conditions so seems balanced enough to me. Flame if you must but somewhere in the flame please answer my noobish question

I cant really say it better than Gus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Greedy Gus

Reduce/Remove Key Post-Nightfall Power Creep

* Kill natural stride
* Kill mending touch

This is so phenomenally important in regard to changing the current gvg dynamic, and I'm not sure enough people see it yet. The reason this is initially hard to swallow is that ranger templates at the moment are not degenerate, and do reward skillful play.

The problem arises in that the cripshot template with natural stride and mending touch is too strong at containment and control play; it ends up wiping out a ton of other potentially playable tactics and skirmish builds. It raises the bar that everything is measured against in skirmish play from blinding flash to interrupts. We need that bar lowered back down, in order to start fixing other healthy templates especially in regard to flaggers and flexible split characters (opposed to dedicated split). It's important to note that even when metagames arise where rangers aren't a dominant play choice, this character template still just existing is limiting of what can be successfully played.

The main intent of this change is to get condition removal off rangers, and to remove the awesome bar compression of block stance + speed boost. There used to be interesting (tough) strategic choices to be made when deciding to run a ranger, based on tools you'd want (run buff, block stance, res sig, blackout, self-heal, hunters/debil shot) but limited slots. This choice was made based on preference, opponent, teambuild synergy, or team strategy.

However, the absolute most important aspect is getting condi-removal off rangers. Luckily, if you absolutely can't make both of these skills disappear, you can target natural stride and make rangers look to distortion for a good skirmish stance, and hence kill the ability to run condi removal.

Joe.

Zuranthium · Mar 19, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

I'd like to see LoD back at 5 1 5, with the 80% conditionality. Should heal for less, 10 + (Attribute * 3), but also heal the caster for double. That would keep its versatility as a self-heal for the Monk without being too strong at healing across the map and relieving widespread pressure like it used to.

~Z

dies like fish · Mar 19, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

I'll keep saying it:

Light of Deliverance
10e 1c 5r
All party members are healed for 5..65..85. For each affected party member under 80% health, you gain 1 energy.

pah01 · Mar 19, 2008, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

I'd like to see LoD back at 5 1 5, with the 80% conditionality. Should heal for less, 10 + (Attribute * 3), but also heal the caster for double. That would keep its versatility as a self-heal for the Monk without being too strong at healing across the map and relieving widespread pressure like it used to.

~Z

I have to say upon reading Mitches reply, I have to disagree with this.

Earshot range, 5 1 8 healing a wee bit better than it is now.

Joe

Axagoth Baal · Mar 19, 2008, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by dies like fish

I'll keep saying it:

Light of Deliverance
10e 1c 5r
All party members are healed for 5..65..85. For each affected party member under 80% health, you gain 1 energy.

That would be quite good. 10 sec recharge is way too long for such a small wide-heal and nobody uses it atm.

pah01 · Mar 19, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axagoth Baal

That would be quite good. 10 sec recharge is way too long for such a small wide-heal and nobody uses it atm.

10 energy would be too much, its why blessed light no longer sees play

Zuranthium · Mar 19, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

I have to say upon reading Mitches reply, I have to disagree with this.

Earshot range, 5 1 8 healing a wee bit better than it is now.

I'd prefer the skill as it is now in comparison to that change. It should be balanced as a long-range heal. Divine Healing and Heaven's Delight are already there as the shorter range party heals.

~Z

Age · Mar 19, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

I'd prefer the skill as it is now in comparison to that change. It should be balanced as a long-range heal. Divine Healing and Heaven's Delight are already there as the shorter range party heals.

~Z

I agree and would suggest an 8 sec recharge.

Zabe · Mar 20, 2008, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

10 energy would be too much, its why blessed light no longer sees play

In that case it wouldn't be too much. Or ofcourse, it would be too much for spamming it on recharge like you did with 5/1/5 version. With 10/1/5 (or 8 r) giving energy back from affected, you would incase have to let peoples health drop a bit to use it wisely, it would reduce spamming it on recharge.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 20, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Mend Touch is powerful because it makes that character immune to conditions. 2 Conditions removed every 4 seconds is rediculous. NOTHING sticks.

I agree that skills like this need to be in place for crip shot, YAA, etc, but the skill at the moment leaves rangers as being one of the only optional split characters.

moriz · Mar 20, 2008, 03:29 PM // 15:29

mending touch had already been nerfed to 6 second recharge. another nerf to it, and you'll start seeing people going R/P for remedy signet instead.

sourfishy · Mar 20, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

As the game enters its last few months, why can't we just have the skills the way we want? I will cry with joy the day LoD is reverted back. Splitting will be fun again, 2 monk backlines will work fine without the help of ritualists and paragons, skill-less noobs loaded with aoe or scythes will be easier to deal with, and more importantly, monking will be fun again.

Buns United · Mar 20, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourfishy

As the game enters its last few months, why can't we just have the skills the way we want? I will cry with joy the day LoD is reverted back. Splitting will be fun again, 2 monk backlines will work fine without the help of ritualists and paragons, skill-less noobs loaded with aoe or scythes will be easier to deal with, and more importantly, monking will be fun again.

Because the game strives for balance, 'leaving it as it is' isn't exactly what that means.

Revering LoD back to it's usual position, would mean you have to spike to make kills, pressure didn't work as well back then. Which would again result in boring gameplay and not to mention, the nerf was there for a reason...

sourfishy · Mar 20, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buns United

Because the game strives for balance, 'leaving it as it is' isn't exactly what that means.

Revering LoD back to it's usual position, would mean you have to spike to make kills, pressure didn't work as well back then. Which would again result in boring gameplay and not to mention, the nerf was there for a reason...

That's ridiculous. Simply shutting down the skill will make pressure all the harder to deal with. And I don't believe that matches will come down to shutting down a key skill because all this means is that the mesmer/ranger on the other team plays well, or the LoD monk plays well enough to get around them and keep the team up.

I can't possibly be the only person that despises eles with heal party, ritualists for kaolai and life, paragons for their shouts, and the ridiculous blockway people run. Afterall, if you cant heal your party, then defending against everything is the next best thing.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 21, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Deaths are good for the meta. LoD is fine.

horseradish · Mar 21, 2008, 01:57 AM // 01:57

LoD is fine when both monks carry it.

That's pretty much it.

twicky_kid · Mar 21, 2008, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourfishy

That's ridiculous. Simply shutting down the skill will make pressure all the harder to deal with. And I don't believe that matches will come down to shutting down a key skill because all this means is that the mesmer/ranger on the other team plays well, or the LoD monk plays well enough to get around them and keep the team up.

When we had the spike meta with the SoD/LoD backline teams carried sig of humiliation just to shut down LoD. Guess what teams still had a hard time making kills.

LoD was simply way too efficient back then. You'd regen more energy than you spent by spamming it on recharge. It took no thought in when you used it. Oh look its recharged......button mashing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourfishy

I can't possibly be the only person that despises eles with heal party, ritualists for kaolai and life, paragons for their shouts, and the ridiculous blockway people run. Afterall, if you cant heal your party, then defending against everything is the next best thing.

Eles with heal party was the original mass healing template. So, yes you are probably the only one bothered by it.

Actually the best tactic against block way is to split. Mass healing is less effective in splits. You'll still have to deal with the blockway but at least its not blockway + mass healing. Block way only became strong because of constant nerfs to monks. Monks became less and less effective in splits which resulted in teams going to their mid line more and more for support and dmg mitigation. Paragons fueled the fire but nothing that cannot be fixed. You only need to change a few key skills to change the entire class drasticly.

LoD is in a good place atm. Leave it there.

dies like fish · Mar 21, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

LoD was simply way too efficient back then. You'd regen more energy than you spent by spamming it on recharge. It took no thought in when you used it. Oh look its recharged......button mashing.

Wouldn't you regen TWICE as much energy now?

twicky_kid · Mar 22, 2008, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by dies like fish

Wouldn't you regen TWICE as much energy now?

Yes but the efficiency is cut down because you cannot cast it as often. You could drain the monk's energy and he'd still be able to pump out LoD on every recharge. Since the recharge was 5 seconds it was enough time to suppress a lot of pressure on teams.

Now you'll have to do more than just LoD to suppress party wide pressure making it much less efficient.

*lemming* · Mar 22, 2008, 10:20 AM // 10:20

I can't believe you're arguing again that LoD is free.