Curse

Kaon · Mar 29, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Obviously, given the promptness with which this was discovered, we monitor the ATS. However, we do not have someone in the game for the 48 straight hours of the monthly championships. (Or were you suggesting 24/7 during the entire month?) Anyway, I will make a recommendation about this so that perhaps we can have more direct observation in the future. However, it remains to be seen if such dedicated staffing would be deemed possible or practical. I do appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

What are you talking about? Just one dev, Andrew Patrick preferably, to be online and contactable during the tournament when things go wrong. Not just for crap like this but also for other dire situations.

So far it's happened almost every monthly that a guild autoforfeits cause of a drop right before enter mission. I know quite a lot of people that decided to never play gw again from that instant on. If you could message or e-mail a dev that could put you back into the tournament it would all be fine.

I can think of countless other situations where direct dev support is necessary in the middle of the tournament, but so far nothing has happened. I've never heard of anyone being helped during the tournament, and i DO know a lot of people.

Also, banning someone during a match in the MAT, no matter how just, is just extremely dumb.

Apple · Mar 29, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

You guys working on your post counts or somethin'?

I mean, really, what's the point of a one-liner, anyway?

Ok, it's pretty ridiculous that when ANet make a mistake your defence is offending the people you screwed over. Here's hoping new CR for GW2!

Robster Lobster · Mar 29, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Allow me to clarify a couple of things, for greater accuracy:

I do not have all-game broadcast abilities, and those who do have those capabilities did not feel it was necessary to make an all-game message to the effect of map changes for the people playing in the ATS

.

I don't get this. This seems like a really easy way to remedy the situation, you send a message to everyone saying, "There was a problem with the Monthly AT system, the original map rotation will be restored after the match on Corrupted Isle, starting with Frozen Isle. Sorry for any inconvenience caused".

Did you honestly think that anyone not involved in the monthly would've been bothered?

InfernalSuffering · Mar 29, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

[*]I do not have all-game broadcast abilities, and those who do have those capabilities did not feel it was necessary to make an all-game message to the effect of map changes for the people playing in the ATS.

There are thousands of dollars on the line, thousands of hours of player time spent leading up to this day, and you had the resources to fix a major flaw in the problem, but it wasnt deemed necessary?!?!? That is absolutely ridiculous and if these sort of management decisions seem to continue into Guild Wars 2, ANet may lose the remainder of its PvP playerbase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Obviously, given the promptness with which this was discovered, we monitor the ATS. However, we do not have someone in the game for the 48 straight hours of the monthly championships. (Or were you suggesting 24/7 during the entire month?) Anyway, I will make a recommendation about this so that perhaps we can have more direct observation in the future. However, it remains to be seen if such dedicated staffing would be deemed possible or practical. I do appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

By promptness you mean an hour into the tournament?!? Being only an observer, I noticed this about 10 minutes into the first match when they started to appear on observer mode. Players actually participating would have noticed even earlier, and yet the company in charge of the tournament didn't notice for an hour in. That isnt prompt by any stretch of the imagination. Secondly, get your math straight. There many hours in between monthly tournaments, and separate people could handle the different tournaments. Each monthly tournament also comes out to about 6 hours and 25 minutes (12 hours and 50 minutes between both tournaments, note how its not 48 hours), thats not that long, and if you expect a player to stay on for that long, you can sure expect a paid employee to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

You guys working on your post counts or somethin'?

I mean, really, what's the point of a one-liner, anyway?

And then you mock players because they are disappointed with what is obviously a shameful day in the history of competitive guild wars?

It's like adding insult to injury. (how about that for a one-liner?)

Descenarius · Mar 29, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

so players are banned during a match in a mAT but no one is there to send a message to the players or fix that fast?
o sry, not banning, blocking

okay, so blocking someone is more important than having a not bugged mAT

kind of sucks imho

btw i don't understand why saying "you're homos" is a reason to be banned (sry blocked)
i mean, homosexuallity ... it's not that bad, is it?

Gaile Gray · Mar 29, 2008, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Apple]

Ok, it's pretty ridiculous that when ANet make a mistake your defence is offending the people you screwed over. Here's hoping new CR for GW2!

Apple, I was trying to have fun with you. I'm sorry that you were offended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

What are you talking about? Just one dev, Andrew Patrick preferably, to be online and contactable during the tournament when things go wrong. Not just for crap like this but also for other dire situations.

So far it's happened almost every monthly that a guild autoforfeits cause of a drop right before enter mission. I know quite a lot of people that decided to never play gw again from that instant on. If you could message or e-mail a dev that could put you back into the tournament it would all be fine.

I can think of countless other situations where direct dev support is necessary in the middle of the tournament, but so far nothing has happened. I've never heard of anyone being helped during the tournament, and i DO know a lot of people.

Also, banning someone during a match in the MAT, no matter how just, is just extremely dumb.

Well, I understand you request. Andrew is the one who spotted the problem to begin with, and set the emails and phone calls into motion. But in a 48-hour span, Andrew has to sleep. So we're talking about additional people, I guess, working in rotation, including, say, 3 in the morning. I truly do understand why you feel there is a need and I will relay that suggestion.

I'm sorry about someone getting blocked or banned -- still don't know which -- and I do understand that this apparently wasn't the result of the offensive name (which really was over the top.

) If we made an error, I'm really sorry. The number of errors is extremely low, when taken in context of the daily player numbers, but knowing that doesn't help when it's you, or a guildie.

DutchSmurf · Mar 29, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Obviously, given the promtness with which this was discovered, we monitor the ATS. However, we do not have someone in the game for the 48 straight hours of the monthly championships. (Or were you suggesting 24/7 during the entire month?) Anyway, I will make a recommendation about this so that perhaps we can have more direct observation in the future. However, it remains to be seen if such dedicated staffing would be deemed possible or practical. I do appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

As far as I know, the monthly championships don't take 48 hours. Anyway, I don't think the biggest problem is the error happening in the first place. The difference in playstyle between Warriors and Solitude isn't that big. It became a problem when Isle of Dead suddenly became Frozen Isle.
Before the first call was made by Anet personal, everyone playing had figured out already that we had the maps from last month. With that in mind, the topguilds could easily select a build that worked with the map they expected next. Option 2 would have been perfectly fine from this moment on.
But I can understand Anet wanting to fix things. Those maps were intended, so we want to see them in action. What I don't get is how anyone who knows anything about competitive playing makes a change as big as Dead->Frozen without using the tools you seem to have available to announce it. Of all the options available to change back to the intended rotation, Anet picked the worst one with the worst timing. That is the biggest problem I see here.

If Anet is serious about their tournaments, a 'fix' like that one we saw today should not happen. There is no possible argument for it. I can understand that a mistake happens. You forgot to change the maps. Surprising in the first round, but we can deal with it after that. An unannounced change after that, timed the way this one was, can only be called amateurish.

Kaon · Mar 29, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

What do you mean by him being online 48hours in a row? Just online DURING the actual tournament, that's like 6hours. Not too large of a sacrifice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dutchsmurf

Anyway, I don't think the biggest problem is the error happening in the first place. The difference in playstyle between Warriors and Solitude isn't that big. It became a problem when Isle of Dead suddenly became Frozen Isle.

The playstyle difference between wurms and burning is huge though, noone knew what was going to happen the second round.

Apple · Mar 29, 2008, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Yeah, no-one worth anything cares about HB anyway...

Monk Gsb · Mar 29, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

[QUOTE=Gaile Gray] But in a 48-hour span, Andrew has to sleep. So we're talking about additional people, I guess, working in rotation, including, say, 3 in the morning. I truly do understand why you feel there is a need and I will relay that suggestion.[QUOTE]

OR maybe you could just have some one check it for the MONTHLY. hell pay me and i'd do it, damn, just some one to check that thing's are going ok, like. the maps that were on the roster are the maps that are being played on, give this person the ability to send a golbal message that would appear in: guild halls, hero's ascent, great temp of balth, ra, ta and hb. (all the PvP areas on the battle isle)

2 ppl (one for GvG one for HvH cause i know how all a-net members likes there sleep). once a month each. wow not that hard, or maybe its just too much work for you guys on such an old game, that you can only keep players here because you throw (more) money in there face's or there just waiting for a new ( and well lets face it, better ) game to come out, and just for an example.... warhammer: age of reconing.

Aera · Mar 29, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monk Gsb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

But in a 48-hour span, Andrew has to sleep. So we're talking about additional people, I guess, working in rotation, including, say, 3 in the morning. I truly do understand why you feel there is a need and I will relay that suggestion.

OR maybe you could just have some one check it for the MONTHLY. hell pay me and i'd do it, damn, just some one to check that thing's are going ok, like. the maps that were on the roster are the maps that are being played on, give this person the ability to send a golbal message that would appear in: guild halls, hero's ascent, great temp of balth, ra, ta and hb. (all the PvP areas on the battle isle)

2 ppl (one for GvG one for HvH cause i know how all a-net members likes there sleep). once a month each. wow not that hard, or maybe its just too much work for you guys on such an old game, that you can only keep players here because you throw (more) money in there face's or there just waiting for a new ( and well lets face it, better ) game to come out, and just for an example.... warhammer: age of reconing.

I'll do it for free.

Wahoo · Mar 29, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Apple]

Ok, it's pretty ridiculous that when ANet make a mistake your defence is offending the people you screwed over. Here's hoping new CR for GW2!

I found this exerpt on the official site: (http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...arch/rules.php)

ArenaNet reserves the right to reschedule and/or restart games and matches as needed. Such decisions will be announced and executed only by official ArenaNet personnel.

Two questions (since, Gaile, you're not fond of the brevity of one-liners)

1. What would it take for you guys to restart a tournament? If I recall, games have been restarted in the past (was it iQ vs. EviL circa 2006?) for single disconnects...but I guess when it comes to over sixty teams affected it's not an option you'd exercise.

2. Is incompetence frowned upon at your place of business? What does one have to do to get fired at Arena.Net?

InfernalSuffering · Mar 29, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I'd like to add my own questions:

1. Honestly, does competitive PvP matter to Arena.net at this point? If yes, why does it seem like it doesn't?

2. As a consumer, why should I buy Guild Wars 2 if events like these show signs of reoccurring?

Aera · Mar 29, 2008, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Some good news: Xunlai Tournament House has been fixed.

Gaile Gray · Mar 29, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Guys,

Again, I'm sorry for the mess-up, and for the lack of announcement, although we broadcast go to one district or throughout the entire game, so selecting PvP-areas only isn't possible. Still, I do see your point that making an in-game announcement would have been helpful, and I regret that we did not do that.

This is the first time that I know of, in about three years of competitive events, where such a situation has arisen. I hope that your overall view of the game, and of our support of PvP, wouldn't be impacted by a single episode. But of course that is for you to decide, as far as playing Guild Wars, as far as buying Guild Wars 2.

As to the specific question of restarts, those do apply to games and matches, and not the entire series. But what would happen if, say, the servers were affected by a black-out? What would we do then? This is different, though: Guilds won, guilds lost. Can we take the victories away? Make them play again, and hold our breaths hoping that the best team wins, or that the victory is repeated to validate the results?

Honestly, we want to make solid recommendations to the team -- we're reading all your comments and will share them with the devs.

Lorinda · Mar 29, 2008, 09:51 PM // 21:51

I hope for you, anet that you will be able to find any sponsors after failures like this.
Dont you double check things like this? Ok, this can happen in a dayly AT.
But in a tourny with prices over 1000 dollars you should really check this.

in ICT this means death for a company if you keep making really stupid mistakes like this.

It might sounds extremly stupid, but try an Test area + some guys that test it

But hell, im just a small guy in the big ICT world

InfernalSuffering · Mar 29, 2008, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Guys,

Again, I'm sorry for the mess-up, and for the lack of announcement, although we broadcast go to one district or throughout the entire game, so selecting PvP-areas only isn't possible. Still, I do see your point that making an in-game announcement would have been helpful, and I regret that we did not do that.

This is the first time that I know of, in about three years of competitive events, where such a situation has arisen. I hope that your overall view of the game, and of our support of PvP, wouldn't be impacted by a single episode. But of course that is for you to decide, as far as playing Guild Wars, as far as buying Guild Wars 2.

As to the specific question of restarts, those do apply to games and matches, and not the entire series. But what would happen if, say, the servers were affected by a black-out? What would we do then? This is different, though: Guilds won, guilds lost. Can we take the victories away? Make them play again, and hold of breaths hoping that the best team wins, or that the victory is repeated to validate the results?

Honestly, I want to make solid recommendations to the team -- I'm reading all your comments and will share them with the devs.

For starters, all of our suggestions (Arena.net member watching the tournament, in-game announcement system ready, etc.) need to be ready for the RawrCup next week.

Divinus Stella · Mar 29, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Its not that much of an issue, the only mistake they made was not telling people the rotation changed.

If they didnt change the maps halfway through then it would have been another sinsplit monthly.

Andrew Patrick · Mar 29, 2008, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

For starters, all of our suggestions (Arena.net member watching the tournament, in-game announcement system ready, etc.) need to be ready for the RawrCup next week.

I will be at the rawr cup from start to finish. I'm part of the whole Guild Cafe' Tournament Committee.

I was also there today, and started the ball rolling as soon as I could. Though I admit, the ability to broadcast would have been helpful when the decision to fix the rotation was made. And I will certainly pass that along.

Wahoo · Mar 29, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

As to the specific question of restarts, those do apply to games and matches, and not the entire series. But what would happen if, say, the servers were affected by a black-out? What would we do then? This is different, though: Guilds won, guilds lost. Can we take the victories away? Make them play again, and hold of breaths hoping that the best team wins, or that the victory is repeated to validate the results?

Honestly, we want to make solid recommendations to the team -- we're reading all your comments and will share them with the devs.

I'm not an expert on logic, but if games and matches are part of a series and you concede that the rules apply...how can you not extend them to the larger picture? I feel like you've just told us, "since 33 games were affected for 4 rounds each before we enacted a solution, we'd much prefer to sweep the more glaring issue under the rug."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Guilds won, guilds lost.

Guilds won and lost on maps that:

a) Were not included in the *qualifying* rounds (emphasis here on the need to qualify on said maps), and
b) Should not have been included in the first place.

Rather than register further frustration in this thread...I've got to ask: Is this the official position of the developers or are you stating your personal opinion that wins and losses on erroneous maps should be honored?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

I will be at the rawr cup from start to finish.

Will you be working or holding Halls with your guild?