Curse

Div · Dec 30, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Hey, i was just wondering how you put up with pressure in HA and keep your energy level high if channeling has been diverted/rended/shattered.

Don't bring channeling, and you won't have a problem of it getting diverted or stripped

TheOneMephisto · Dec 30, 2007, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

the only thing that prevents me from using my high sets as frequently as i would like to is that i havent found a comfortable or fast way of switching from regular/defensive sets to -1 or -2 sets.

Im limited by my interface habits. I dont use click to move (too used to wasd from playing FPS games). When monking my left hand deals with movement and clutch skills like Infuse etc on keys 123 that are above W on my laptop keyboard.

So my left hand already has alot to deal with. Item sets are on f1 f2 f3 by default and ive not found it possible for my left hand to move up to those keys and back down to wasd and 123 keys quickly. LOL it all sounds quite malcoordinated doesnt it.

My right hand on the mouse does a few things... click party members... click skills vs pressure... hold right button to control camera view when i need to watch the battlefield.

item switching from regular to high on every cast just seems impossible for me atm. If i found a highly intuitive way of doing it i would...

right now because of my lack of ability to switch between sets quickly... when i need to... i tend to stay in high sets for longer than i would like...

and i have no idea how to change this short of growing another arm.

It's perfectly fine just to use f1-4 keys for switching while using 1-8 for skills. Just right before you cast, hit the f# key for your weapon set, kit the number, and right after you finish casting hit the other f# key. It's mostly just getting to the point where it becomes natural, and you get that from just practicing a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

no dont get me wrong i use my emergency set when i need to and right after casting i swap back down, but if you are letting your energy get that low in the first place you need to take a look on the way you are playing, cause something isnt right.

if an extra 15 energy isnt enough for an emergency cast when you are trying to build energy back up, then wtf are you doing? just remember you already have an extra 12 in reserve cause you should be sitting on a shield set, and for me that is enough backup. relying on a -energy regen set for an energy reserve, is NOT a good approach to monking imo

Tommy disagrees. In the same thread, he said that he often spends a lot of time in his high set, including naming two games where he spent something like 10+ minutes monking out of his high set.

There are always reasons to use your high set. If your team is pushing and you might be able to get a kill, then go ahead and dip into it through aggressively removing conditions and hexes while you push. The very point that Tommy was making is that it isn't an emergency set, it's just an extension of your regular energy that you should be taking advantage of whenever you feel the need to. There's always more things that a monk could be doing to help his/her team, including offensively, such as taking down those conditions, protting to allow pushes and overextensions, and aggressively removing hexes and maintaining veils, and if the situation warrants them then you should push as hard as you can using every resource possible.\

But don't take my word, I highly recommend that you read the thread by Tommy, including the first part about high energy sets. Though it isn't exactly the same as HA, it still has a lot of relevance and is by a very good monk who knows what he's doing.

BlackEagle · Dec 31, 2007, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

no dont get me wrong i use my emergency set when i need to and right after casting i swap back down, but if you are letting your energy get that low in the first place you need to take a look on the way you are playing, cause something isnt right.

if an extra 15 energy isnt enough for an emergency cast when you are trying to build energy back up, then wtf are you doing? just remember you already have an extra 12 in reserve cause you should be sitting on a shield set, and for me that is enough backup. relying on a -energy regen set for an energy reserve, is NOT a good approach to monking imo

That's just showing off the fact that you view using your high set as a bad thing. Now, it's not ideal, because it would thearetically mean you are pressured, but within that situation it becomes the most valuable thing to you. I never disputed that you use your high energy set when you perceive it to be necessary, I'm questioning if when you perceive it to be necessary is wrong. You seem to be thinking that using energy is a bad thing for a monk to be doing, and only bad monks don't use energy at a rate that they can regen. But teams do damage to you, and if they aren't bad, they will do enough to you to make you need to use more than you can regen. Therefore, a good monk is going to run low on energy.

Also, about having an extra 12 energy because you're sitting in shield set, that is wrong. You shouldn't, you shouldn't really be casting anything in your shield set, you'll be constantly switching to efficiency sets meaning that you don't have 12 in reserve.

I know you aren't arguing against the use of high energy sets, but all I'm saying is that there are far, far more situations where you use high energy sets than those that you listed. Also, I'm just pointing that there is such a big taboo associate with using high energy sets which is incorrect, because they should be a monks trump card.

Div · Dec 31, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

I like spending entire matches on negative sets. It's pretty fun, and it gets so addicting that I monk with negative energy on regular set in PvE too!

Tyla · Dec 31, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Well hopefully this & Tommy's thread will lead me to being much, much better at monking!

Thanks again.

Doom Man · Jan 07, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

in terms of monking communication is really the key. If your channeling gets disabled in any way you should inform your team. If you are with a team you are comfortable playing with and you are one of the leading figures in the group you should just command them to kill the ghost if you manage to screw up and get channeling diversioned; that way it recharges. If you are running low on energy just tell your team to pull back a bit.

In terms of weapon sets I stick with a defensive set which includes -5 energy + 30 weapon with +30 shield with +10 specific armor. I try to swap to 40/40 healing set if casting heal spells, and my 20/40 prot staff if casting a long duration enchant or prot skill. +15x2 energy set when my 40/40 is low.

Legendary Shiz · Jan 08, 2008, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Don't bring channeling, and you won't have a problem of it getting diverted or stripped

You really hate that skill don't you

Killed u man · Jan 10, 2008, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Hmm, if you get it diverted, that's more bad play than bad skill... If u assume it was a "good" mesmer on the enemy team, than you can also state that IF you were to play GoLe monk, he would have also diverted that, thus ending up with NO energy management on both bars...

The biggest downside on channeling is having it stripped, but a good HA monk team will cover it up straight away (Rof/aura etc ftw), so I don't concider that a real big threat...

When U DO get your channeling diverted (Stripped usually doesn't hurt that bad, just try and "manage" the 15 seconds), that it pretty much comes down to your team to "net" the loss of healing... Obviously, it's best if you tell your team straight away, and ask for a retreat/defensive play. (Ask if the mesmer can start interupting fire aoe, have the warrior sit on theirs, etc...)

However, you are obviously giving worst case scenario here, seeing ANY monk bar without E-management kinda sucks in HA...

Div · Jan 11, 2008, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

You really hate that skill don't you

Nah, that comment was sarcastic. Channeling's a great skill to use on an RC or WoH bar. The only time I don't like it is when people say it's a total necessity on HB bars.

killer_cake · Jan 27, 2008, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Hey guys. Its been a while since Ive been to HA and many of the new builds require hiding energy or something. this is probably a noob question but i seriously want to know whats the point of hiding energy?

TheHaxor · Jan 27, 2008, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer_cake

Hey guys. Its been a while since Ive been to HA and many of the new builds require hiding energy or something. this is probably a noob question but i seriously want to know whats the point of hiding energy?

So you don't get raped by forms of e-denial.

NamelessBeauty · Feb 04, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

1st: Kill the ghost for morale / recharge your skill
2nd: Tell your melee to play defensive (attack their melee.)
3rd: Retreat to open areas and spread prevent some uneccessary dmg.
4th: Use more 5e instead of 10e spells. Yes use SoA or Gaurdian instead of Spirit bond. That means PRE-Prot not Prot on spike. For healer, don't infuse unless you are sure your ally will die if you don't infuse. How to know? Look at their melee and use your EAR. You can hear the dmg coming from Ranger, Para or even eles sometimes. If all those sound come at once, that mean its a heavy spike.

Note: Normally I play like that anyway and sometimes I don't even use channeling for the entire match. Why? Lazy? waste of energy if the enemy spread out.

Chaos Rofl Copter · Apr 03, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

generally, if your channeling gets diverted against a condition pressure, you're slightly screwed. try and conserve as much energy as you can by only healing targets that are taking pressure and not topping up stuff unless you are sure you'll have enough energy for later

The hardest spike (for me) to read is rspike, because there isn't much to give away from the opposition to indicate where the arrows are going to land. try to get your team to use obstacles as much as they can, such as walls, hills and bridges so you can narrow down the number of hostile spike targets.

hmmmm, well you could always try watching their me/x or x/n for rend, shatter etc. then just cover your self in time with rof/hb so channeling isnt stripped and your screwed. if a rend strips it off then you can't really do anything about it. but to optimize channeling you should weapon swap to an enchant staff/spear or whatever.

also, you shouldnt have a reason to get channeling diverted. because you should be able to cancel cast it, and your team should be able to notify you when diversion is incoming. also. standing next to the enemy ghostly is bad, i ensure you it will dshot channeling.(edit: its ok if you get channeling diverted if the mesmer 40/40 cast one on you, or if its something stupid like glyph of essence +diversion) =/

vs. ranger spike btw, stand right next to the caller behind him/her and dont try to channel tank. have your partner monk also stand next to a ranger. when the caller starts to spike. just look in the direction it starts to fire in and prot/infuse along the lines ^^, if the caller is stupid enough to rend you when your right in his face you know the spikes on you ^^.

Lorekeeper · Apr 04, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos Rofl Copter

vs. ranger spike btw, stand right next to the caller behind him/her and dont try to channel tank. have your partner monk also stand next to a ranger. when the caller starts to spike. just look in the direction it starts to fire in and prot/infuse along the lines ^^, if the caller is stupid enough to rend you when your right in his face you know the spikes on you ^^.

This is pretty good advice, its really fun training the calling ranger around the map. Sometimes i hit him with my sword just to let him know im watching him lol.

On a different note, with all these rend mesmers and rend R/Ds in HA now Gole is looking very attractive as an alternative to channeling. The environment is pretty hostile to maintaining channeling on monks so much so that you can no longer rely on it and it can even prove a liability to rely on it vs a large amount of teams out there.

try it out, it brings you that step closer to experiencing true monking =)

but watch out on altar maps! hahaha

llsektorll · Apr 04, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

this probably does not apply to proficient monks but for the noobs you have to remember one thing.

Don't heal to max health if not necessary. You only need to keep them alive not keep them at max health. Make sure your teams are not using superior runes (except for vigor) and take full vitae. Most teams will do this as many teams are spike.

When energy is low try to find a good spot and channel tank.

Kyp Jade · Apr 04, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

sektor wins, its a sign of bad monks that they feel the need to overheal everything.

Kyle S · Apr 05, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

There is a cancel button always watch when your using an important skill to cancel it for diversion. If it gets shatters you should be able to last 15 seconds without it, if you can't well then... yeah you're not so great of a monk.

Lorekeeper · Apr 05, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle S

There is a cancel button always watch when your using an important skill to cancel it for diversion. If it gets shatters you should be able to last 15 seconds without it, if you can't well then... yeah you're not so great of a monk.

I think you all have to accept that you are going to cast through diversion sometime or another, what separates you from the bad monks to being a great monk is how you and your team adapts to times when you do get something important diversioned. If you get channeling diverted but your team carries on fighting in a choke while its clear the backline is not able to hold up vs the pressure then whos fault is it for the loss? The monk getting channeling diverted or the team for not cooling off the pressure and recovering?

A great team will answer the latter, a bad team will answer the former.

Its as simple as that.

But on a side note: reliance on channeling is a highly relative topic. Some builds require channeling fuelled backlines, with many soft targets, low amounts of party heal support etc. In these builds even 15 seconds without channeling can be dangerous. In other builds with more hard targets, good party heal support and players who are great at mitigating the damage they take (like dodging spears and kiting from AoE and spreading out well) reliance on channeling fuelled monks is reduced. Some builds you can run GOLE some you cant. The builds that rely on channeling backlines are extremely vulnerable to good mesmers who know how to break channeling monks, and in all honesty, it doesnt take a degree in rocket science to keep a 1s cast 15s recharge enchantment off 1 or even 2 monks during a match. The buff to rend enchantments made it even harder for monks to protect themselves to that sort of shutdown. Is there any wonder why there has been such a surge of multiple healer backlines in HA? I think not.

Tyla · Apr 05, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

I'm coming back to the thread here...
What about just...avoid Channeling and not depending on it for energy management?

Tearz1993 · Apr 05, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Channeling is necessary for a couple reasons...
1) It's so ridiculously powerful on altar matches and even regular matches there isn't a reason NOT to bring it.
2) The metas currently generate huge amounts of pressure if done right, so without channeling its pretty damn hard.
3) Lots of spikes now have a very small delay between spikes, so the monk either burns his energy out with making sure no one dies or needs to red bar heal if their spike generates pressure when not spiking as well.