Curse

urania · Apr 09, 2008, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

You are adressing me on the veils Urania, or someone else?

In the first case I preveil most physicals and myself. I check opposition and cancel veils if hexes land or I start consuming energy. Yes the requirement on offhands can be a good point however u can still switch to a -1/+15 or -2/+30 energy set.

I can agree with the interuption thing, but slower cast time is good too, so it becomes counterable.

i was responding to Chaos Rofl Copter's post since he made it obvious he isnt aware of some of the basics of preveiling vs a necro and does not take into account the high recharge of veil in comparison to wail.

The biggets problem wit the req is when u already are forced to use high set for healing

.

Teh Jace · Apr 09, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

@chaosrolfwhatever

I wonder if we still play the same game. Or maybe u run dual monk crap or double Me/N so u actually dont mind having one of ur monk down 50% of the time.

The funny thing is that noone uses this skill in 8vs8 (izzy wanted to see necros in gvg) but it completely ruins 4vs4. Revert this horrible update alrdy, ty o mighty izzy.

P3pt0 1s @n @ddiction · Apr 09, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54

I have been playing necro alot since Izzy the greats update and i must say WoD is imba. If you give a good player a HaX skill problems to the rest of the community will occur. I do wpn swap each time and i do get very luck getting 5sec recharges on my Wail of Doom's and with 4 sec duration and lucky 5 sec recharges for a skill that reduces all attibutes to 0 thats a /sit that can be casted. The problem is that izzy's skill balances rarely consider 4v4 setups. Their rarely is a second healer in 4v4 and if so the main healer will be targeted with wod and the 2nd healer will be doing butterfly heals. I personally dont ant WoD to be touched cause im kinda pwning faces with it atm. But on a grand scale theirs 2 answers to Nerf it, Yes/No Yes because on 4v4 balance vs balance it can get unfair if 1 team doesnt have a WoD necro and No because a balance vs gimmic the math shows Gimmic= Unfair and WoD= unfair x2 making balance able to beat gimmicks.

yum · Apr 10, 2008, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

The funny thing is that noone uses this skill in 8vs8 (izzy wanted to see necros in gvg) but it completely ruins 4vs4. Revert this horrible update alrdy, ty o mighty izzy.

Nothing can be closer to the truth.

Edit: I still prefer the new function of WoD though. But other than that, the last update was a disaster.

Hundbert · Apr 10, 2008, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Yes it's a bit too strong but i don't want it nerfed too hard. Maybe 15 sec recharge or something instead of nerfing the casting time?

It's a great asset when you spike but the energy cost, recharge and casting time make this a spammable skill.

If i put this hex on a monk who has like 15% hp left he is dead.
If i put diversion on the same monk he has to give up a skill but he will live.

This skill is also kinda good to use to counter any kind of spike.

That's why i would rather see a nerf to the recharge than casting time.
With a longer recharge you'd have to think more where and when to use it.
Good teams and players could still make great use out of it but it won't be spammable.

1/4 sec-3/4 sec casting time (no more it has to be able to catch spikes and stuff) and 15 sec recharge. How does that sound?

The proposals so far:

Increased energy cost to stop spam.
Increased casting time to allow for interruption.
Increased recharge time to stop spam.
Increased sacrifice to stop spam.
Moving skill to blood magic for an overall nerf in general to the wod necro.
Adding back the interrupt feature and only make the hex apply if you actually interrupted an attack SKILL or a SPELL.

I like this last suggestion it rewards good players but less good players will find they need to practise more.

newbie_of_doom · Apr 10, 2008, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane Warrior

WoD is not overpowered, the duration makes it a spamish skill that's just asking to be diverted. Also...I heard hv hex breaker ECT were good

Ye Im so sure every1 has diversion in RA.
This skill is overpowered (in RA)since without a HRT it will be on you before your next veil, which also isnt hardest to interupt. Which basicly means theres nothing to do vs it. You need to time your heals well to not be bothered by this (again, without HRT).

I would suggest an increase in recharge imo.

zling · Apr 10, 2008, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep

I reckon WoD would be much less of a problem if it was a blood magic skill.

not really, when I run WoD on my necro I usually run 8 blood anyway for strip enchantment, so it removes 2 instead of 1. so making it in blood wont matter too much, its not like soul reaping itself is any good in PvP, I could live with a 12+1+1, 12, 3+1 Curses, Blood, Soul Reaping if you change WoD to blood...

Barkeep · Apr 10, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30

You would not be able to spam foul feast as much as you used to though.

urania · Apr 10, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

for all of you there thinking u can own a necro with hex breaker, think again

defile defenses (or para bond, but thats for ra) >>hex breaker =D

legacyofkain85 · Apr 10, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

wail is quite powerful especialy in the melee hate build.Stack up some nice hexes on the oposing melee than, wail the oposing monk during a spike,and yes i have seen it in action,its fun healing at 0 atributes (Not).

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

not really, when I run WoD on my necro I usually run 8 blood anyway for strip enchantment, so it removes 2 instead of 1. so making it in blood wont matter too much, its not like soul reaping itself is any good in PvP, I could live with a 12+1+1, 12, 3+1 Curses, Blood, Soul Reaping if you change WoD to blood...

yeah to bad the other nice melee hate hexes are in curses and not blood

the_deSKtructor · Apr 10, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Moving it to blood won't solve any problem imo. Ppl might start to run it on mes then, which i don't think will be that good.

Lorekeeper · Apr 11, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Just had a couple of outings in TA today and yesterday, almost got up to 30 win streaks with some random teams who invited me when i said lfg can play anything. Didnt see that many WoD necros at all...

Build we came across the most was a dual monk dual sin build, Wounding strike scythe A/D and Shattering assault A/W.

If anything the A/D template is the thing that needs hitting, along with assassins remedy.

Although i must add that yesterday the team i was in was running WoD, and it pretty much almost got us a 30win streak too (40/40 soul reaping set ftw).

Not sure if 30win streaks are indications of broken builds (im glad r1 and im sure more experienced TAers get far longer streaks). But purely by popularity the assassin builds are more of a problem from what i saw in two days

fix please!

urania · Apr 11, 2008, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Just had a couple of outings in TA today and yesterday, almost got up to 30 win streaks with some random teams who invited me when i said lfg can play anything. Didnt see that many WoD necros at all...

Build we came across the most was a dual monk dual sin build, Wounding strike scythe A/D and Shattering assault A/W.

If anything the A/D template is the thing that needs hitting, along with assassins remedy.

Although i must add that yesterday the team i was in was running WoD, and it pretty much almost got us a 30win streak too (40/40 soul reaping set ftw).

Not sure if 30win streaks are indications of broken builds (im glad r1 and im sure more experienced TAers get far longer streaks). But purely by popularity the assassin builds are more of a problem from what i saw in two days

fix please!

as i already said in another post of mine, fixing either shatter sins or scythe sins (preferably both) will make TA a whole better place.

Yet i still think that WoD needs more conditionality, its still too strong for the low skill req it takes. Similarly as scythe sins and shatter assault sins are.

Axagoth Baal · Apr 11, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

I agree, shattering assault assassin r just too strong. Unblockable hits, stances removal, enchantments removal, immunity to condition, huge damage, low recharge (4-6 secs) all this in a skillbar.

And VoD is overpowered... quite low recharge, no energy cost (1??), no casting time. Make it 10 energy and 1 casting time would be more competitive with the other necro elite skills. Maybe it could also be changed to: "all your target's attributes decrease by x... x points" instead of reaching zero.

Celeborn10 · Apr 12, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axagoth Baal

I agree, shattering assault assassin r just too strong. Unblockable hits, stances removal, enchantments removal, immunity to condition, huge damage, low recharge (4-6 secs) all this in a skillbar.

And VoD is overpowered... quite low recharge, no energy cost (1??), no casting time. Make it 10 energy and 1 casting time would be more competitive with the other necro elite skills. Maybe it could also be changed to: "all your target's attributes decrease by x... x points" instead of reaching zero.

Hmm if you take a look at the Shattering Bar you would find that the lead is dependent upon having an enchantment to be unblockable and the only enchantment on the bar is Assassin's Remedy without a cover implying a weakness to enchantment removal which should be quite ample on Necros in this meta. If it needs to be balanced more of the chain should be dependent upon the enchantment clause to be unblockable. Oh and the shift towards Shattering is most likely a meta response to the Me/N Sig of Midnight build, Assassin's Remedy is pretty much the only way to get through it. Nerf that and warriors will become prevalent and counter the sins in turn.

As for WoD (I agree that VoD is overpowered but this isn't GvG) it was made as others have said before that it seems to be an interrupt at which it fulfills its goal quite well at the 1/4 second cast. What about changing it so that it works on the next 0...2/3 skills and increased recharge? That way Warriors can still maintain pressure and it takes a little more tact to choose when to shut the monk down.

zling · Apr 12, 2008, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by legacyofkain85

yeah to bad the other nice melee hate hexes are in curses and not blood

if you bothered reading my post you'll get your answer...

Quote:

Originally Posted by celeborn10

Hmm if you take a look at the Shattering Bar you would find that the lead is dependent upon having an enchantment to be unblockable and the only enchantment on the bar is Assassin's Remedy without a cover implying a weakness to enchantment removal which should be quite ample on Necros in this meta. If it needs to be balanced more of the chain should be dependent upon the enchantment clause to be unblockable.

yes the Shattering bar needs some tone down. I think the main problem is [skill]wild strike[/skill] it removes a stance(usually a block stance) and is unblockable by default. compare it to [skill]fox fangs[/skill] they both have the same energy cost, just that [skill]wild strike[/skill] has half the recharge, does a bit more dmg and removes a stance!
at the very least [skill]wild strike[/skill] shouldnt be unblockable and should remove stance if it hits.

the_deSKtructor · Apr 12, 2008, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeborn10

Hmm if you take a look at the Shattering Bar you would find that the lead is dependent upon having an enchantment to be unblockable and the only enchantment on the bar is Assassin's Remedy without a cover implying a weakness to enchantment removal which should be quite ample on Necros in this meta.

This is just a reminder for you. There are 3 other characters in a team arenas build, and those can provide the enchantments the assassin needs to work. For example, i've seen ppl running [[Vigorous Spirit], [[Strength of Honor] or [[Withering Aura] for the sin. The bar has also a lot of utility slots on which u can put a fast recharge enchantment for your chain if needed. Also, the recharge of the lead attack (which is the only attack prone to enchantment removal) is 4 seconds, so if u miss u don't have to wait that long to retry the chain.

Quote:

If it needs to be balanced more of the chain should be dependent upon the enchantment clause to be unblockable. Oh and the shift towards Shattering is most likely a meta response to the Me/N Sig of Midnight build, Assassin's Remedy is pretty much the only way to get through it. Nerf that and warriors will become prevalent and counter the sins in turn.

I don't think that the enchantment relying thing is the thing that should balance that bar. Face it, it packs the best stance removal skill in the whole gw (making stances useless), it packs one of the best (if not the best) enchantment removal skill in the game (making prots useless), it is unblockable (making pre-prot useless), it is almost condition immune (making condition based anti-meele chars useless), it has a lot of damage and it is kinda brainless while still having a lot of skill slots free for utility. But ah well, let's face it, as long as they won't start to run the bar in gvg we won't have any fix....

C2K · Apr 12, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

I don't think that the enchantment relying thing is the thing that should balance that bar. Face it, it packs the best stance removal skill in the whole gw (making stances useless), it packs one of the best (if not the best) enchantment removal skill in the game (making prots useless), it is unblockable (making pre-prot useless), it is almost condition immune (making condition based anti-meele chars useless), it has a lot of damage and it is kinda brainless while still having a lot of skill slots free for utility. But ah well, let's face it, as long as they won't start to run the bar in gvg we won't have any fix....

Last time I saw the Shattering Sin used in GvG, it didn't do so well. Sins aren't known for pressure in GvG, its all about the gank. Shattering sin is a great pressure build for sin, but it will never beat the spiking of a warrior, a dervish, the A/D scythe, or a 5-6 skill sin combo in the GvG game.

Sab · Apr 13, 2008, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Food

No skill is overpowered, at the beginning of a match, scan the opposing team. If there's a necro, keep your eye on him/her and watch for his/her elite. If it's WoD, then have viel on yourself 24/7. Problem solved.

Wail of Doom has 10r and necros almost always bring Rip/Rend. If pre-veiling is saving you against a WoD necro, that doesn't mean WoD is balanced, it means the necro is shit.

Chaos Rofl Copter · Apr 13, 2008, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

Ye. That build can easily shut down 2 melee or keep the ranger blind long enough to sneak a humi -_-. If the mes is smart, no way you can spike anything.

hmm yeah, signet of midnight is gayer than wod,
why?~
you dont need skill to blind sombody on recharge. humility the woh/zb. and spam hexes at random targets.