Curse

urania · Mar 24, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep

People tend to start out fairly balanced, then after 1 or 2 losses to gimmicks they get annoyed and decide to run a gimmick themselves. That is the point where I usually leave the team. I cannot blame them really. It's easier, faster and you get more glad points with it.

yeah, you should know how that's like, squall (;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep

A minor detail id like to point out to all the people who are comparing diversion to WoD. Wail of Doom itself may be less effective as monk shutdown than diversion or blackout. But what makes it so effective is that you can combine it with a fully defensive necro, who doesnt even need to spread his attributes because of it. So you got a normal anti-melee necro, but with very strong monk shutdown as well. However, if you choose to take a domi, you are very limited in your options of anti-melee. Empathy is pretty much your only option. I reckon WoD would be much less of a problem if it was a blood magic skill.

I consider a hex that makes ur Elite heal for 30 hp only a pretty good monk shutdown...

Either move it to blood magic or give back the interrupt feature - so the hex gets applied only if u interrupt either a spell or an attack skill. Otherwise the skill should have no effect.

bungusmaximus · Mar 24, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

No ofc everything is allright. Watching 2 necros with FF and plague sending is funny.

TA is like playing pacman.

lol very true, but I like necros in a utility role instead of being hex spammers. Hex overload was much much worse. But ff is a bit much imho, there's simply nothing that will stick. Needs a longer cast (3/4 sec).

Mike The Spike · Mar 24, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Is WoD overpowered?

Well, in 4v4, when I'm on my Necro I like to bring it now. At first when I saw the changes to the skill, the duration kept me away from it, however that was before I realized how things could be kept up more indefinitely. Arcane Echo, for example, lets you spam it even more -- assuming you're not saccing away all your life, but luckily the amount isn't too steep (Old OoB ftw). Moreover, like others have pointed out, I tend to use this skill as an interrupt without the interrupt effect. For example, on a Ritualist laying down a Recoup spirit. It's pretty funny when he finishes to see a lvl 1 super elite spirit standing there.

So is it overpowered when I can single handedly shut down a healer nearly all the time? After all, very few skills are any good use at 0 attributes, with the exception of stuff like Shield Bash and Holy Veil.

When I Monk against someone using it I just try to position myself in a manner where the Necro has to overextend, then call a spike on him once the time is right. That's the only defense I've come up with, and maybe that's sad ...

Hundbert · Mar 24, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

It's like Squall said

Quote:

But what makes it so effective is that you can combine it with a fully defensive necro, who doesnt even need to spread his attributes because of it. So you got a normal anti-melee necro, but with very strong monk shutdown as well.

Moving it to blood may be enough but i still don't like a hex this powerful to have a 1/4 sec casting time.

Teh Jace · Mar 24, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

All these 1/4s imba skills are bad for the game. I wanna play guild wars, not spam wars.

Zamochit · Mar 25, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

The cast time needs to be 1 second, or if they insist on keeping the 1/4 second cast then increase the sacrifice to 17% or 20%

Sun Fired Blank · Mar 25, 2008, 10:03 AM // 10:03

The problem is more severe than Wail of Doom, and comes back to my trinity of determining why skills are broken.

1) Solutions - options that singlehandedly marginalize other options or tactics.

- Signet of Humility halts use of any elite. That alone is very powerful; the ability to permalock any elite from the Mantra is even more dumb. Clearly games are decided by whichever team can permalock the most useful elite of the other team.
- Signet of Midnight is a very powerful, easily reusable source of blind; even lacking Mantra of Inscriptions, you have a relatively hard fight in removing blind quickly enough; spot condition removal very quickly wastes your energy.
- Wail of Doom is a no-penalty blackout. In comparison, Blackout is fairly interesting, as it must be used sparingly, is fairly obvious, and is relatively susceptable to disruption, but can also enable gamebreaking plays. Wail of Doom can be used on recharge, does not require you to walk up to your target, and must be diverted or perma-locked to stop it, and therefore completely invalidates a target for half the match.
- Foul Feast completely destroys any notion of condition pressure as Draw Conditions on steroids.

Note: the very best solutions can't be fought; you can't disrupt any of them, they're so reuseable that disable or another solution is the only meaningful response, or they simply crush you when they resolve.

2) Engines - options that augment a variety of things.

- Mantra of Inscriptions augments a rather sickening number of options. It enables you to permalock any elite from Signet of Humility, and it enables you to use Signet of Midnight faster than the other team can reasonably fight.
- Signet of Midnight generates unmanageable amounts of blind from the recently augmented plague options.
- Foul Feast can reciprocate a large condition pressure through Plague Sending.

Everything raised in the previous thread is no longer a problem; only because it's viciously overshadowed by this crap that is unfortunately required to get anywhere. To be completely frank, I think your only solution in TA for this crap is to run this crap, and that's very sad. As far as I know, the situation requires that you run this in order to get anywhere.

If anyone has a build that is consistently functional versus the crap in TA, and does not require any of the crap from above or the previous thread ("What are your in-depth views..."), please inform us quickly. So far, in my experience of playing TA over the last several days, any balanced group that does not run some kind of obnoxious crap has failed quite badly.

I apologize profusely to Jace for our most recent TA match. We completely lamed you out. Everything competitive in TA is completely lame. But as I said, in this meta, you really must run something lame to consistently defeat something just as lame, or you get constantly lamed out. When everything was HC and HC-smite, you could not run either and be fairly competitive. I honestly don't know if that's true anymore; it seems you really must run some kind of shit necro or mesmer to win.

moko · Mar 25, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

i'm not sure why you all keep getting that off-topic.

Sab · Mar 25, 2008, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Just fix everything the new update broke, it's reduced balance v balance to two guys ping-ponging conditions back and forth.

audioaxes · Apr 06, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

if you use WoD as a constant lock down, you wont have much time to do anything else

Patrick Smit · Apr 07, 2008, 06:41 AM // 06:41

switch and cast other stuff? cast requires in total like 1 second, so 4.25-9.25 seconds left for other stuff, but its even better to use wod as "interupt" in crucial skills like WoH, ZB etc that were critical at that point

moush · Apr 07, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Stop failing and adapt. Just because someone messed with your meta doesn't mean you need to bitch.

And comparing WoD to blackout is laughable, blackout is much better.

ender6 · Apr 07, 2008, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by moush

Stop failing and adapt. Just because someone messed with your meta doesn't mean you need to bitch.

And comparing WoD to blackout is laughable, blackout is much better.

You must be refering to the April 1st update to Blackout (aka april fools).

I think the only thing that anyone is asking for is to make WoD interruptable -- nothing unreasonable in that.

Chaos Rofl Copter · Apr 09, 2008, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hundbert

With 13 sr for the 4 sec breakpoint and a 40/40 sr set you can pretty much keep this hex 24/7 on a monk. How do you monk when your prots don't do anything and your heals heal for 5 hp.

The effect of this hex is too powerful with these stats. It needs to have a LONGER casting time so you can actually interrupt it or a LONGER recharge time. I have the same feeling about this hex as i had with sod before it was finally nerfed.

wail isnt over powered.... just preveil in front of the wod nec. run up to him. use rof like an interupt when you see him use rip enchant. then he/she wails you. /remove veil. walah.

or.. in another circumstance... just preveil. and get ready to take off veil when your team starts taking alot of pressure. since thats when any decent shut down nec would apply wail.

Avatar Exico · Apr 09, 2008, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Wail of Doom was overpowered it was able to permanently shutdown a War attacking skills making them helpless. But now it just buffed of Version of Apathy that pretty much it.

Patrick Smit · Apr 09, 2008, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos Rofl Copter

wail isnt over powered.... just preveil in front of the wod nec. run up to him. use rof like an interupt when you see him use rip enchant. then he/she wails you. /remove veil. walah.

or.. in another circumstance... just preveil. and get ready to take off veil when your team starts taking alot of pressure. since thats when any decent shut down nec would apply wail.

Ofcourse the first time this is easy, but in the heat of the fight u will be unable to do this feat, because there are others to take care of as well besides the opposing neccy. But I agree Wail of Doom is not that good, u can still use return, veil, remove hex, RoF, Glyph of LE etc., The bottomline is that WoD punishes bad skill use I think in my opinion. But I agree that the cast time may be increased to 0.75 or 1 second.

urania · Apr 09, 2008, 07:43 AM // 07:43

apparently you are not aware that one has to keep veils on the melee, not (only) yourself. Moreoever, wail has a 10 sec recharge and can easily get halfed recharge with 20/20 set, unlike veil where one has to use a staff in order to get the 20% halfed recharge. Not to mention the fact that wail owns non shield sets hard by reducing the e bar by 6 energy for 4 seconds (guess why

) and that really hurts,especiallywhen one is playing a ZB monk

. Moreover #2, a wail that has been used on spikes will pretty much end up in death, normally its the death of a target other than the monk. It is too good in comparison to what it does, life-sack being the only "downfall" is just not enough, it cannot be stopped apart from using humility (and even that can get raped by wail

), but that is usually reserved for the monk =P. I vote for adding back the interrupt feature and only make the hex applyif you actually interrupted an attack SKILL or a SPELL. Less mindless spam ftw.

Patrick Smit · Apr 09, 2008, 08:41 AM // 08:41

You are adressing me on the veils Urania, or someone else?

In the first case I preveil most physicals and myself. I check opposition and cancel veils if hexes land or I start consuming energy. Yes the requirement on offhands can be a good point however u can still switch to a -1/+15 or -2/+30 energy set.

I can agree with the interuption thing, but slower cast time is good too, so it becomes counterable.

the_deSKtructor · Apr 09, 2008, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamelessBeauty

Spam? => Diversion?

Oh btw, you go ahead and spam that shit with the 10% sac! You would die faster than the monking running out of energy!

I never see it as a prob in either RA, TA, HA or GvG!

I have ran it on hero and it seems to be effective though I have no idea who did they cast on!

I bet u play ta a lot, don't u? If u did so u'd know that a domination mesmer wouldn't be that viable, excluding the me/n template maybe, which is broken. The 10% life sac isn't that painful, but i can agree with u that in those bigger formats (HA, GvG) WoD isn't really good.

Sun Fired Blank · Apr 09, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

1) There is no non-elite hex removal in the game that recharges quickly enough to stop Wail except for Remove Hex. Outside of options like Guilt, Signet of Humility or Diversion, the necro is going to simply use Wail on Recharge, and that simply beat your Veil.
2) Wail requires no actual sacrifice. If you constantly pre-veil yourself, cover Veil from Rip using Reversal, and use Veil to remove Wail, you burn 70 energy per minute. If you expend only half that amount of energy on your not-so-clever defensive method to only remain functioning, Wail has already done more work than almost any other necro elite.
3) Wail masquerades as a hex, which is very deceitful. Once they've used Wail, the other team knows that you either can't function or you have to respond to function, and that you've already used a great deal of Wail's duration even if you try and reactively remove it.